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[FRAFPDD]

RIght, 1 race where Lewis makes a mistake, and another one which everyone agrees was a racing incident, suddenly Lewis is a crasher?

Talk about milking it, this is unreal.

Although i agree 100 percent with the whole post i must say i was more then welcome to let them(fans of other drivers) say that his style incurs these mistakes becaues it does, but to suggest he change his driving style that has gained him a reputation as the best driver in F1 with Alonso AND a world title is strange tbh, unless of course they wish him to change so that hes less of a threat, thats a likely conclusion lol. When you support Lewis you take the rare bad with he most of the time immense, Like Alonso fans take his most complete driver title(which he is) with a sometmes questionable sportmanship, im more then happy with that bargain of a deal, Lewis has many more years left to win more WDC's and the fact hes led it at a fair few races thsi year with opposition like the red bulls and bad luck gives me huge excitement for the years where Macca produce a front running car. TBH im hoping for an Alonso/Schumacher/Hamilton fight next year, that would be P-E-R-F-E-C-T.

[stonemonkey]

Why should he change his style? Nothing wrong with the move, Webber was behind before the corner but decided to brake later than usual anyway (while offline) and crashed his WDC competitor out. Simple and clear. Lewis isn't the one who needs to change his style.

Again, my posts are being mis-understood, Lewis believes the common misconception that the racing line is something more than it actually is.

I've seen the replay and I was half a car-length ahead of Mark, and on the racing line.

Unless he can change his view on the racing line then he's going to fall foul to the sort of move Mark made again.With his current belief he is unable to predict where Mark will put his car.

[Hammer278]

If you want to see what is Mark's problem, watch a replay of the Australian GP. It was Lewis vs Mark with Lewis trying to overtake Mark. To save you time, watch between lap 15-17.

To sum up, he doesn't have that talent to race without making contact. He's hit quite a few cars in his time, and this makes him a dangerous person to overtake. It's a good reputation to build for the future though it doesn't do much for himself as a racer.

[samie]

OK. Hamilton had the line..

now what?

was it worth it? what was he to gain overtaking webber?

[stonemonkey]

I am a Hamilton fan and I don't much like Webber, earlier in this thread I was accused of Webber bashing.

Webber is just on the right side of borderline and racing hard and bringing something into F1 that's been missing for some time and that the younger drivers are having a hard time coming to grips with. Webber is giving F1 a much needed kick up the arse and in a way at the moment I hope it pays off for him, it will be good for F1.

[Hammer278]

In hindsight, anyone can be correct.

What has he to gain on Webber? Are you kidding me?? Are you following this season or was Singapore your first F1 race?

[stonemonkey]

OK. Hamilton had the line..

now what?

was it worth it? what was he to gain overtaking webber?

The line means nothing.

The simplest example I can think of:

Two drivers coming along the Monza backstraight towards parabolica wheel to wheel. Where the racing line switches from right to left the driver on the racing line follows it and there's contact, who's at fault?

[What's Burning?]

I'm not implying Lewis should change his style.

Yes you are/did.

It was you who brought the Schumacher comparison, so i put results on the same yardstick you did.

After your suggestion Lewis change his "style" since it wasn't working out for him with all his DNF's and penalties.

Leading the WDC is a contradiction? I'm sure that's exactly what he's been looking for.

He's leading the WDC because he's had a superior car all year long, and he's managed to keep his car able to race after major contact with other drivers that didn't have the same good fortune.

I have nothing against Webber and I'd be happy for him if he won the WDC this year, but he's clearly not in the same driver stratus as the other drivers in contention. There are times when luck plays a bigger role than talent, but that's never a good long term strategy.

[f1ea]

I'm not implying Lewis should change his style.

Yes you are/did.

Ah... this is easy.
No I am not. hehe

No seriously, i dont really care about his style, first because i think he doesnt have a particular style. And second, because a couple of dnfs doesnt mean much about anybody's particular style. I did say... if a certain driver has problems because of a certain style, then it is time to think a little. Pretty much because you and some other guy were saying drivers shouldnt change their style. I think yes they do. If their style gives them poor results (ie dnfs and pealties)... they should think about it. I was not only talking about Lewis.

It was you who brought the Schumacher comparison, so i put results on the same yardstick you did.

After your suggestion Lewis change his "style" since it wasn't working out for him with all his DNF's and penalties.

Again. No.
I spoke about style AFTER you mentioned Schumacher.

Leading the WDC is a contradiction? I'm sure that's exactly what he's been looking for.

He's leading the WDC because he's had a superior car all year long, and he's managed to keep his car able to race after major contact with other drivers that didn't have the same good fortune.

I have nothing against Webber and I'd be happy for him if he won the WDC this year, but he's clearly not in the same driver stratus as the other drivers in contention. There are times when luck plays a bigger role than talent, but that's never a good long term strategy.

[/quote]

yet again... so where's your point?? whatever style Webber may have... its working.
Who cares about which stratus he's in?? the only thing he wants is the WDC. And everyone knows you need a very good car for that. Everything else is highly subjective, and according to many (including the drivers themselves)... meaningless.

But i get you guys' point: you (and the other members from your little help-group there) want to say Lewis is/would be the only real deserving champion and that his style (whatever it may be) is the greatest.

That's ok. You can speak openly.

BTW I'm saying: I dont think Lewis has any particular style, and that the race incident at Singapore was nothing more than an unfortunate situation where one driver assumed the other guy was going to concede or surrender an imaginary line. Also, i think ANY driver that gets into lots of dnf/penalties should think about his 'style'.

You see.. i spoke openly

[What's Burning?]

It's not a case of one camp versus another. I've implied on many occasion I'd rather see someone try and fail than not try at all, It's just my personal preference. I'd rather see someone earn something that have it gifted to them or worse steal it or coerce it or cheat for it. There's enough examples of that in every camp. So no need to play the your crimes are a worse offense than my crimes game.

You can choose to lump me in whichever camp you'd like to lump me into, the truth is that you're guilty of doing EXACTLY the same thing you accuse others of and then you pretend that you know not why!

Objectivity is a constant, it's not something yo apply as you'd like or in your time and place of choosing. I give you credit because you at least don't take things into the personal attack realm as others have a propensity to do and you've also shown, with me that we can have civil disagreements or simply agree to disagree but you can't pretend that you're on this mightier than though argument when you've been doing the same thing you're accusing others of.

I misread the thread before and you know what you're right, I did mention Schumacher before, my point in that was that no driver is going to change their style, and you chose to underscore that Lewis should because obviously his style isn't working.

Well it's working enough to beat a 2time WDC, it's working enough to have him be 3rd in the WDC this year with the most DNFs. So that was my point, MS hasn't changed his style, Webber hasn't changed his style... but you think Lewis should.

BTW, the other day you implied that Alonso drove so much better than Button and that's why he won in Monza, you again did it very subtly saying that Alonso took so much better care of his tires that is allowed him to choose his stratergy unlike Jenson who had to pit.

I pointed out to you that Jenson had both a busted rear diffuser (thanks to Alonso) AND a busted front wing, which you insisted he didn't. I told you to check the facts.... I even asked Spanky to help me out (because he's good with facts) and I don't remember anyone of your "camp" fact checking that.

So my point it, if you're going to be objective, be objective. If you're going to be a fanboy, be a fanboy but you can't be both you can't pick and choose, and you certainly can't be a sore winner because that's worse than being a sore loser.

I've congratulated and complimented Alonso on every win he's earned this year, so you can lump me into whatever camp you'd like. I'll maintain that I'm an F1fan first, And I think Lewis is the most exiting person behind an F1 steering wheel today but I support any driver that has talent, wants to win and earns it.

[racechick]

It's not a case of one camp versus another. I've implied on many occasion I'd rather see someone try and fail than not try at all, It's just my personal preference. I'd rather see someone earn something that have it gifted to them or worse steal it or coerce it or cheat for it. There's enough examples of that in every camp. So no need to play the your crimes are a worse offense than my crimes game.

You can choose to lump me in whichever camp you'd like to lump me into, the truth is that you're guilty of doing EXACTLY the same thing you accuse others of and then you pretend that you know not why!

Objectivity is a constant, it's not something yo apply as you'd like or in your time and place of choosing. I give you credit because you at least don't take things into the personal attack realm as others have a propensity to do and you've also shown, with me that we can have civil disagreements or simply agree to disagree but you can't pretend that you're on this mightier than though argument when you've been doing the same thing you're accusing others of.

I misread the thread before and you know what you're right, I did mention Schumacher before, my point in that was that no driver is going to change their style, and you chose to underscore that Lewis should because obviously his style isn't working.

Well it's working enough to beat a 2time WDC, it's working enough to have him be 3rd in the WDC this year with the most DNFs. So that was my point, MS hasn't changed his style, Webber hasn't changed his style... but you think Lewis should.

BTW, the other day you implied that Alonso drove so much better than Button and that's why he won in Monza, you again did it very subtly saying that Alonso took so much better care of his tires that is allowed him to choose his stratergy unlike Jenson who had to pit.

I pointed out to you that Jenson had both a busted rear diffuser (thanks to Alonso) AND a busted front wing, which you insisted he didn't. I told you to check the facts.... I even asked Spanky to help me out (because he's good with facts) and I don't remember anyone of your "camp" fact checking that.

So my point it, if you're going to be objective, be objective. If you're going to be a fanboy, be a fanboy but you can't be both you can't pick and choose, and you certainly can't be a sore winner because that's worse than being a sore loser.

I've congratulated and complimented Alonso on every win he's earned this year, so you can lump me into whatever camp you'd like. I'll maintain that I'm an F1fan first, And I think Lewis is the most exiting person behind an F1 steering wheel today but I support any driver that has talent, wants to win and earns it.

Good post!!

[f1ea]

So that was my point, MS hasn't changed his style, Webber hasn't changed his style... but you think Lewis should.

Oh, there it goes. Therein lies the confusion. I never said anything about Lewis changing his style.
Obviously, because you think that's what i'm saying you've decided to write an essay. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I havent said Lewis should change his style.

Frankly, i still fail to see what is this style you are all talking about. So i will simply drop it and let others decide for themselves. I'm sure it'll be a fun read.

(Also, the rest of the things you claim i've said in other threads... they are all out there to be read and understood, so whoever wants can go and decide for themselves...)

[myownalias]

I appreciate Lewis' aggressive driving nature; it makes F1 more exciting, the problem is that many drivers that Lewis passes tend to give in too easily allowing the McLaren driver to breeze past, Mark Webber on the other hand is a hard racer; he'll hold his line and make the overtaker driver around him. Which used to be common place before the FIA started punishing racing incidents, now drivers, especially the newer drivers in the last 4 - 5 years are almost afraid to take a lung down the inside for fear of recriminations. This is why I like Kamui Kobayashi, he's an old fashioned racer who will make an overtake attempt and to hell with the consequences; this is motor racing!

[FRAFPDD]

I appreciate Lewis' aggressive driving nature; it makes F1 more exciting, the problem is that many drivers that Lewis passes tend to give in too easily allowing the McLaren driver to breeze past, Mark Webber on the other hand is a hard racer; he'll hold his line and make the overtaker driver around him. Which used to be common place before the FIA started punishing racing incidents, now drivers, especially the newer drivers in the last 4 - 5 years are almost afraid to take a lung down the inside for fear of recriminations. This is why I like Kamui Kobayashi, he's an old fashioned racer who will make an overtake attempt and to hell with the consequences; this is motor racing!

You can only appreciate Hamilton doing it, but you like Kobayashi doing it, you do realse Lewis had to somewhere along the line forge this fear of challenging him dont you? His very first race start he came under pressure from Kubica before taking him and Alonso in the first corner. Soon enough if KK keeps going (i hope he does hes pretty much my joint favourite driver with Lewis) people will be scared to challenge him( Alonso broke pretty damn early in Valencia), correct me if im wrong didnt Martin Brundle say: " With Senna he would put you in a position that if you didnt concede position, yuo were both going to crash, the moment you let him have it, you were finished, for he (senna) would now that every time he tries it in the future, youd back off." Thats exactly what Lewis is and has done his whoel F1 career. gotta give kudos to MW for making the stand though. Half the battle is psychological and Mark will not be frightened of anyone.

[vaptin]

^Didn't Lewis try a similar stunt in Monza? (though I don't know if he was deliberately trying to chicken Massa, or just didn't work out Massa's line would be across him). Didn't work then, although I really doubt Massa noticed him there.