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[f1ea]

Yep...you agree...it was a racing incident.....BUT...."Lewis had the line".

Not really giving up on that one are we?....and that's the clearest thing you've written.

Nope, sorry, not giving up on that one.

To me it was a racing incident. Lewis did have the pass nailed, but Mark went for it and claimed the inside on a daring move. I think Lewis didnt have the line, he was following the line (otherwise he wouldnt have TURNED IN on Webber).

Problem is that turn gets taken kinda wide. Because of that, Mark was able to take the inside. Lewis actually turned in on Mark... as Lewis was going for the line he thought he had, but obviously didnt expect Mark would be already there on the inside.

The very same move Lewis tried to pull (in Monza). The problem with the incident was that it was Lewis breaking and not Webber. It would have been "fairer" if it happened as in Monza. Nobody would be arguing much if Webber had been the broken one and not Lewis... but s**t happens. That's a tough pill though.

[hounddub]

Well said....I concur and so do most of the experts.

[racechick]

Yep...you agree...it was a racing incident.....BUT...."Lewis had the line".

Not really giving up on that one are we?....and that's the clearest thing you've written.

Nope, sorry, not giving up on that one.

To me it was a racing incident. Lewis did have the pass nailed, but Mark went for it and claimed the inside on a daring move. I think Lewis didnt have the line, he was following the line (otherwise he wouldnt have TURNED IN on Webber).

Problem is that turn gets taken kinda wide. Because of that, Mark was able to take the inside. Lewis actually turned in on Mark... as Lewis was going for the line he thought he had, but obviously didnt expect Mark would be already there on the inside.

The very same move Lewis tried to pull (in Monza). The problem with the incident was that it was Lewis breaking and not Webber. It would have been "fairer" if it happened as in Monza. Nobody would be arguing much if Webber had been the broken one and not Lewis... but s**t happens. That's a tough pill though.

I agree with some of that, most in fact; but not the bit about Mark taking the line, because lewis was past him when he took it.

[stonemonkey]

He's been doing it for years:

[youtube]NmhjZSWMaOg[/youtube]

even Schumacher's fallen for it.

[youtube]RaUWeiOAOfE[/youtube]

[myownalias]

Seriously; what's with all the Mark Webber bashing; both those videos show the same scenario as the incident with Lewis; the driver turned in on Webber before they were clear; Webber simply held his ground and even gave some but wasn't willing to go off-track to avoid a collision. There is an existing rule that states that a driver must not force another driver off track which is the case in both those videos and the recent incidents, by pulling across a another drivers bow leaves the driver being overtaken two options, hold their ground or go for an off track excursion. Maybe if Mark did go off-track, Lewis would have been penalised anyway and still ended up behind Mark and Jenson.

I have to say that in recent times, there seems to be a complete lack of fair but hard racing, has the FIA softened the sport that much that drivers don't know how to overtake anymore? The top drivers seem to not be able to make a pass on another top driver wouldn't crashing or making contact!

[stonemonkey]

Who said anything about bashing him.

I have to say that in recent times, there seems to be a complete lack of fair but hard racing, has the FIA softened the sport that much that drivers don't know how to overtake anymore?

This is esactly what I've been going on about. Only you've put it better than me.

I'm just pointing out that he's doing something other drivers at the moment don't do (and don't expect him to do) and everyone here seems to be denying this and thinking I'm having a go at him.

[myownalias]

Who said anything about bashing him.

I have to say that in recent times, there seems to be a complete lack of fair but hard racing, has the FIA softened the sport that much that drivers don't know how to overtake anymore?

This is esactly what I've been going on about. Only you've put it better than me.

I'm just pointing out that he's doing something other drivers at the moment don't do (and don't expect him to do) and everyone here seems to be denying this and thinking I'm having a go at him.

For a lot of the F1 newbies; they don't know any different; but for those of us who have been watching F1 for 10+ years; this sort of incident was commonplace and not a single eyelid would be batted, it's only since the new environmentally friendly health & safety concious FIA appeared that this sort of robust driving is frowned upon!

[stonemonkey]

Who said anything about bashing him.

I have to say that in recent times, there seems to be a complete lack of fair but hard racing, has the FIA softened the sport that much that drivers don't know how to overtake anymore?

This is esactly what I've been going on about. Only you've put it better than me.

I'm just pointing out that he's doing something other drivers at the moment don't do (and don't expect him to do) and everyone here seems to be denying this and thinking I'm having a go at him.

For a lot of the F1 newbies; they don't know any different; but for those of us who have been watching F1 for 10+ years; this sort of incident was commonplace and not a single eyelid would be batted, it's only since the new environmentally friendly health & safety concious FIA appeared that this sort of robust driving is frowned upon!

And there is the reason why there was contact in Singapore and Turkey, not beacause of stupid driving but because the younger guys think like that, and think that the other drivers do too.

[stonemonkey]

Hamilton is still playing his part perfectly (too perfectly?):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 044641.stm

Webber and Hamilton have different views on the boundaries of what is acceptable, neither is wrong but Webbers go futher and Hamilton is more limited and that limits what Hamilton can do and therefore what he thinks his opponents can do. Until Hamilton accepts that the racing line is absolutely nothing more than the fastest way round a clear track he won't be able to deal with Webber.

[Hammer278]

Why should he change his style? Nothing wrong with the move, Webber was behind before the corner but decided to brake later than usual anyway (while offline) and crashed his WDC competitor out. Simple and clear. Lewis isn't the one who needs to change his style.

[What's Burning?]

Schumacher hasn't changed his style. So why should Webber or Lewis? This was a racing incident, you win some you lose some. I think there may be a kernel of truth to the styles of driving theory but I don't necessarily think it's a new versus old guard kind of comparison. The sport evolves and cars dictate the style of driving as much as the driver's preference for a style.

[f1ea]

Why should he change his style? Nothing wrong with the move, Webber was behind before the corner but decided to brake later than usual anyway (while offline) and crashed his WDC competitor out. Simple and clear. Lewis isn't the one who needs to change his style.

Schumacher hasn't changed his style. So why should Webber or Lewis? This was a racing incident, you win some you lose some. I think there may be a kernel of truth to the styles of driving theory but I don't necessarily think it's a new versus old guard kind of comparison. The sport evolves and cars dictate the style of driving as much as the driver's preference for a style.

A driver shouldnt change his style, if his style (if that even exists) delivers the results. If it simply brings unwelcome DNFspenalties or whatever, for whatever the reason... hmmm time to think a little. I'm sure nobody wants DNFs.

Schumacher didnt change his style because it got him 7 championships.

Webber's made a strong statement though... Don't mess with the aussie. hehe

[Hammer278]

RIght, 1 race where Lewis makes a mistake, and another one which everyone agrees was a racing incident, suddenly Lewis is a crasher?

Talk about milking it, this is unreal.

[What's Burning?]

Why should he change his style? Nothing wrong with the move, Webber was behind before the corner but decided to brake later than usual anyway (while offline) and crashed his WDC competitor out. Simple and clear. Lewis isn't the one who needs to change his style.

Schumacher hasn't changed his style. So why should Webber or Lewis? This was a racing incident, you win some you lose some. I think there may be a kernel of truth to the styles of driving theory but I don't necessarily think it's a new versus old guard kind of comparison. The sport evolves and cars dictate the style of driving as much as the driver's preference for a style.

A driver shouldnt change his style, if his style (if that even exists) delivers the results. If it simply brings unwelcome DNFspenalties or whatever, for whatever the reason... hmmm time to think a little. I'm sure nobody wants DNFs.

Schumacher didnt change his style because it got him 7 championships.

Webber's made a strong statement though... Don't mess with the aussie. hehe

I know you're not implying that Lewis should change his style because of his DNFs!?!? or penalties?!?! Especially if they're only hurting the driver's chances and no one's else. I do think Lewis' results are plentiful, but certainly not a 7 time WDC... you'd have to be in F1 a bit longer than he's been in it, so don't use the same yardstick yet.

It's no one's decision but the driver, but in the same post you say Schumi didn't change because he got results... and Webber hasn't changed his style, even though he's gotten no results? That's a self contradiction. The only thing different about Webber this year is being in a superior car.

[f1ea]

I know you're not implying that Lewis should change his style because of his DNFs!?!? or penalties?!?! Especially if they're only hurting the driver's chances and no one's else. I do think Lewis' results are plentiful, but certainly not a 7 time WDC... you'd have to be in F1 a bit longer than he's been in it, so don't use the same yardstick yet.

I'm not implying Lewis should change his style. It was you who brought the Schumacher comparison, so i put results on the same yardstick you did.

It's no one's decision but the driver, but in the same post you say Schumi didn't change because he got results... and Webber hasn't changed his style, even though he's gotten no results? That's a self contradiction. The only thing different about Webber this year is being in a superior car.

Leading the WDC is a contradiction? I'm sure that's exactly what he's been looking for.