FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[The Immortal Dragon]

Yes, superb race by Alonso. Vettel was probably faster and during the race I was willing him to make one of his banzai moves and take them both out !

Yes, I think Vettel was slightly quicker. Maybe a couple of tenths, that little.
But track position does matter, especially in a street circuit.

And I was *reaaaally* afraid that Vettel would make one of his moves too; and by move I mean hitting Alonso's radiator with the front wing after losing inexplicably the control of his car

[smokin]

And I was *reaaaally* afraid that Vettel would make one of his moves too; and by move I mean hitting Alonso's radiator with the front wing after losing inexplicably the control of his car

Like I said, I'm glad he didn't. I think Vettel is learning about his limitations which is bad for the others in the chase for the title. He's maybe left it too late this year but he could be a force next year if he continues to race in a more circumspect manner.

Hamilton, on the other hand, drives me to distraction. He HAS learnt but every now and again Taz comes to the fore and he makes moves like he tried today against competitors who he should know won't yield. Yes, Webber braked too late, but Lewis should have expected that. Give Webber just a little more room and Hamilton would have made the pass stick.

[oaba09]

The webber-hamilton accident is nothing but a racing incident...It was unintentional...

Now that lewis''s and jenson's chances in winning the WDC is small, I'm actually hoping that it will be webber who'll take the championship...

Anyone but alonso....

[f1ea]

Hmmm... at some points the Red Bull was the fastest car. And Alonso was kind to his tires, without lock-ups or anything (unlike Button at monza), which allowed Ferrari yet again to choose their own race strategy.

Say whatever you want, but your fanboy speak is showing. Button at Monza had a busted front wing and a busted rear diffuser (thanks to Alons) and he still couldn't overtake him.

Alonso is a great driver, as much as I dislike his style and personality, I never take a stitch away from his driving ability.

Statement #1: At some points the Red Bull was the fastest car. FACT. On the hard tires, the Red Bull was much better. on the softs, about even, maybe Ferrari a bit better, but course Alonso had a clean track...

Statement #2: Alonso was kind to his tires and did not do any lock-ups or gravel trips. FACT. In both races, Alonso had the better tires (conditions) over his immediate competitor. This allowed Ferrari some flexibility in their pit stop. Even when he stop first at Singapore, he knew Vettel's tires were costing him time... so did RB and pitted Vettel.

Button's front wing did not get damaged in Monza, only his rear; which could have potentially been worse for Alonso, as the front wing is much more fragile than the rear. besisdes, I never mentioned WHY Button locked up and didnt pull a gap. But fact was... he had a couple lock ups and wasnt able to pull a gap. The Ferrari was faster at Monza.

Statement #3: Ferrari were able at both races to choose their strategy with some flexibility. Because the tires were a bit better at Monza he could wait for Button to stop. Because Vettel's tires were losing him time in Singapore, Alonso chose to pit before... knowing Vettel wasnt going to be able to jump him had he stayed out a couple more laps.

Sorry... no fanboyism there... just simple facts.

THIS is Fanboy talk:
Alonso and Ferrari schooled Button in monza and Red Bull in Hungary AND Singapore. Neither an easy task, because Button is a hell of a technical and knowledgable driver, and Red Bull is simply fast. I'm sure by now, everyone knows Who's the man.

[formula1man]

sorry

[What's Burning?]

Hmmm... at some points the Red Bull was the fastest car. And Alonso was kind to his tires, without lock-ups or anything (unlike Button at monza), which allowed Ferrari yet again to choose their own race strategy.

Say whatever you want, but your fanboy speak is showing. Button at Monza had a busted front wing and a busted rear diffuser (thanks to Alons) and he still couldn't overtake him.

Alonso is a great driver, as much as I dislike his style and personality, I never take a stitch away from his driving ability.

Statement #1: At some points the Red Bull was the fastest car. FACT. On the hard tires, the Red Bull was much better. on the softs, about even, maybe Ferrari a bit better, but course Alonso had a clean track...

Statement #2: Alonso was kind to his tires and did not do any lock-ups or gravel trips. FACT. In both races, Alonso had the better tires (conditions) over his immediate competitor. This allowed Ferrari some flexibility in their pit stop. Even when he stop first at Singapore, he knew Vettel's tires were costing him time... so did RB and pitted Vettel.

Button's front wing did not get damaged in Monza, only his rear; which could have potentially been worse for Alonso, as the front wing is much more fragile than the rear. besisdes, I never mentioned WHY Button locked up and didnt pull a gap. But fact was... he had a couple lock ups and wasnt able to pull a gap. The Ferrari was faster at Monza.

Statement #3: Ferrari were able at both races to choose their strategy with some flexibility. Because the tires were a bit better at Monza he could wait for Button to stop. Because Vettel's tires were losing him time in Singapore, Alonso chose to pit before... knowing Vettel wasnt going to be able to jump him had he stayed out a couple more laps.

Sorry... no fanboyism there... just simple facts.

THIS is Fanboy talk:
Alonso and Ferrari schooled Button in monza and Red Bull in Hungary AND Singapore. Neither an easy task, because Button is a hell of a technical and knowledgable driver, and Red Bull is simply fast. I'm sure by now, everyone knows Who's the man.

His front wing was damaged on lap one... go check the facts.

Spankyham... where are you?

Alonso was kind to his tires, without lock-ups or anything (unlike Button at monza)

You're right, Alonso was kinds to his tires, without lockups or anything. Alonso also didn't have a busted front wing and a damaged rear diffuser. Your comment is being dismissive of Button's driving skill even if you didn't intend for it to be.

Alonso is a great driver, but it is so difficult to overtake in the sport, that he could not overtake a driver with a damaged front wing, and a damaged diffuser. You don't have to be dismissive of Button's abilities to prove how great of a driver Alonso is, he won the race let that speak for itself. His tires were better because he didn't have to wrestle his car around the track for 3/4 of the race... with a busted front wing and a busted read diffuser.

That's the only point of your post that I labeled fanboyism. I thought I had cut and pasted the appropriate part of your post, but I wanted to make myself more clear since it was misunderstood.

[madbrad]

Alonso and Webber are the top 2 in the points and they are also the 2 I want to see getting it. I mean either, not both LOL. Not that I like them or even dislike the other guys, it's just how I am this year. So this race for me was a happy time.

[Hammer278]

Alonso kept the car off the walls and kept the fastest car of the grid in front. It's a job well done, but anyone of the top 5 (excluding Vettel probably) would have been expected to do that in his position.

[spankyham]

No wonder Ferrari have worked themselves from an impossible position to a chance to win the WCC and WDC.

Ferrari in a position to win the WCC??? What are you smoking?

172 potential points and 66 points behind - I'd say that's a chance.

2 drivers with engine question marks for the last 4 races makes you doubt their chances.

Don't agree with you here. both Ferrari cars, exactly the same as both McLarens will finish the year without using any of their engines more than 3 times. (both teams will use most of their engines 3 times) Incidentally, both the Ferrari and Mercedes engines have already proven they can run at least 4 races this year. Force India have used Merc engines 4 times and Torro Rosso have used Ferrari engines 4 times. Engines are not an issue for either team, if anything, because of the clever team tactic by Ferrari using a 9th engine for Felipe yesterday, the team now can load him with all the "Friday testing" of new parts, while Fernando can simply concentrate on his setup. This might give Ferrari a very slight edge in the engine stakes.

Added to the fact they back one driver over the other makes their pairing weaker than Redbulls or McLarens.

What you see as a weakness is our teams greatest strength. The fact is that our Team Manager, as has been Ferrari's stance since the day dot, has made it clear the team comes first. Our drivers don't dictate our strategies, the team decides and the drivers follow, even if it hurts. I would compare it to a coach or manager in any other sport - at Ferrari the coach says who plays and where. He decides that based on the upcoming game and current conditions. At other F1 teams, it's the players who decide where they play and what they will do. From a Tifosi perspective, I sincerely hope both other contender teams (McLaren and RBR) continue to have their drivers dictate their race strategies and work for their personal goals above those of the team. Unity over disarray got Ferrari back in a fight we were completely out of. It might yet sneak us a win.

and on the Hamilton/Webber bingle, it was just a racing incident. Lewis had the line but Webber was still too close to call it his line! Thats racing when you arent the fastest. Its better to be at the front less chance of crashing then. Back to the drawing board Lewis and McLaren. Ferrari have the heads up on you deal with it and overcome it. simple.

Yes, this was nothing but a racing incident. I think Lewis will realize that he just didn't need to make it so close. He had all the speed and was already in front coming out of the corner, Mark had seriously overcooked it going into the corner so had no fighting exit speed. If Lewis decided to just leave double room for Mark he would have easily taken the lead. Lewis made something possible where it just wasn't necessary.

[bud]

THIS is Fanboy talk:
Alonso and Ferrari schooled Button in monza and Red Bull in Hungary AND Singapore. Neither an easy task, because Button is a hell of a technical and knowledgable driver, and Red Bull is simply fast. I'm sure by now, everyone knows Who's the man.

think theres some "too big a words" for fan boy talk in there, dumb it down a bit more

and on the Hamilton/Webber bingle, it was just a racing incident. Lewis had the line but Webber was still too close to call it his line! Thats racing when you arent the fastest. Its better to be at the front less chance of crashing then. Back to the drawing board Lewis and McLaren. Ferrari have the heads up on you deal with it and overcome it. simple.

Yes, this was nothing but a racing incident. I think Lewis will realize that he just didn't need to make it so close. He had all the speed and was already in front coming out of the corner, Mark had seriously overcooked it going into the corner so had no fighting exit speed. If Lewis decided to just leave double room for Mark he would have easily taken the lead. Lewis made something possible where it just wasn't necessary.

Lewis did leave him some room, as you see from the onboard he didnt even hit the apex. But like Lewis said post race, He left Mark room but Mark was in his blind spot so he wasn't sure what Mark was doing, so would have thought the room he left was enough. He could have gone a bit wider like you said but Its a tough one because if you don't shut the door somewhat youre leaving the door open for the guy behind if that makes sense But if Webber and Hamilton weren't both in the title hunt im sure Webber would have conceded. thats another factor Lewis should have calculated.

[hounddub]

I agree with others regarding the Webber-Hamilton incident...it was a racing incident. But there are 3 rasons for me why:

1. Even though Hamilton got a run on Webber and past him on the outside, he was not as good under brakes as Webber coming into the corner (and Webber did not even lock a brake)
2. The statements by both Hamilton and Whitmarsh that "Lewis left enough room for Webber" are absolute crap and can be seen clearly from the onboard footage.
3. Entering the corner Webber's car is at least halfway overlapping the McLaren....and then he is forced onto the inside of the ripple strip to avoid heavier contact.

The fact is that Hamilton showed very poor judgement again and did not expect Webber to force the issue under brakes....I think he really thought that he was past and Webber would concede.

As for the "official" Mclaren statement after especially from Martin Whitmarsh....what a box of hand-grenades to pour fuel on a non-existent fire.

[3double8]

There's going to be cars strewn all over the place with carbon shards everywhere and the safety car will be out often. Lewis had a flawless race last year, and Alonso is very consistent there, we'll know soon enough.

I think a DNF for any of the top five there and it may be the nail on the coffin of their WDC hopes.

Prediction on point. Singapore circuit quite reminiscent to Monaco.
Alonso's win, well-deserved. Vettel drove like a professional this time (didn't run into anyone, had a better start than Alonso).
Alonso's my man

[AKR]

Here it is from three different angles. Its clear Lewis didnt turn in on Webber. Webber was too late on his breaks and he had room there.

[youtube]WgmcO9qLSkc[/youtube]

McLaren supporters always amuse me how they have to defend theirs even when they are in the wrong. So tell me Anna, if this wasn't Hamilton's fault, then who's fault is it? It surely wasn't Webber's fault. By the way nice win Alonso-Ferrari. Nice result Red Bull. I hope it just stays this way the whole way now. Ferrari and Red Bull until the end. Just in case Ferrari doesn't win (Which I think still is unlikely but that's what I had thought the year Kimi won it), then Red Bull can win.

[bud]

It was not Hamiltons fault.

You can talk AKR youre the most one eyed supporter out of anyone on here! Which is why youre proclaiming it all on Hamilton. Its always his fault in your books.

[nish2280]

There's going to be cars strewn all over the place with carbon shards everywhere and the safety car will be out often. Lewis had a flawless race last year, and Alonso is very consistent there, we'll know soon enough.

I think a DNF for any of the top five there and it may be the nail on the coffin of their WDC hopes.

Prediction on point. Singapore circuit quite reminiscent to Monaco.
Alonso's win, well-deserved. Vettel drove like a professional this time (didn't run into anyone, had a better start than Alonso).
Alonso's my man

Singapore is not that much like Monaco when it comes to racing. I mean, didnt you see the overtaking? You would never get any of that in Monaco!

But you do get plenty of crashes