FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[spankyham]

From the way it was explained by Martin Brundle on the BBC is; yes they will effectively get a penalty free engine change but the engine being replaced can not be re-used for the remainder of the season but a fresher engine will certainly benefit Massa in the upcoming races rather than using an engine that has already done two race weekends.

So he doesn't get an extra engine to use; just a fresh replacement!

To clarify the engine change rule and how it will effect Felipe and Ferrari.

The rule doesn't say he has to replace any engine. The rule states a driver can use only 8 engines. If he uses more than 8, he is penalised (one time) by dropping 10 grid spots. Also if he did have to replace an engine, he could choose to replace any of the eight - he could replace the oldest/most miles used engine. Brundle probably thought the engine he was using was damaged in some way, so he assumed it was being replaced. It wasn't damaged at all, the problem was the gearbox. For future races, Massa can now use ANY of his engines, including the 9th, without any further penalty. Specifically the rule (stated below) says the penalty applies only at the first Event the additional (not replacement) engine is used.

The applicable rule is covered in the 2010 Sporting Regulations Article 28.4.a which states:-
"Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use
more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which
each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the
driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event."

[racechick]

Ferrari would be crazy not to change Felipes engine. Where he is on the grid its a freebie.

[NocturnalTendencies]

Enjoy the race, there's no way I'm staying up for this boring circuit. Skyline shots are nice but they only go so far.

[Flux]

just to point out he still technically has 9, but in reality he has 8 right? as the one yesterday if not dead its gona be damaged and down on power.

[elfinitty]

just to point out he still technically has 9, but in reality he has 8 right? as the one yesterday if not dead its gona be damaged and down on power.

I wonder why they used all of the engines when theres still an amount of races left?

[racechick]

As I understand it, if he takes a new one, he can no longer use the replaced/damaged one.

[racechick]

just to point out he still technically has 9, but in reality he has 8 right? as the one yesterday if not dead its gona be damaged and down on power.

I wonder why they used all of the engines when theres still an amount of races left?

They blew up.

[Flux]

no no, obviously high strung engines as there life / mileage goes on the go down on power while yes few of the Ferrari engines are blown up / dead they have more than enough to cover the season off as an engine can be run up to 2000 km, race's average about 310km's distance so as you can see unless there is a major fault with a engine, there lifespan only needs to be 2 and abit races and most will only do two as the ones that will have to do 3 are taken from less power / engine based circuits.

where Felipe Massa has gained is that his remaining engines have lets say a less demand on them as the fresh engine can take care of 2 races fine, where he could loose out is if one of those engines blows in which case he will either have to run a engine up to its limit or face a grid drop.

the more engines blow means the more work the others have to do, and its the last thing you need to be worrying about going into a championship battle is keeping your engine alive, maybe Massa wont have to but with alonso used all his 8 and has a few blown that's why its getting press .


cant wait for the race, there's gona be a crash!

[FerrariFan63]

taking the extra engine wont actually help massa, other than the fact they are replacing a broken engine. ( does that make sense ) as it isnt counted as an extra engine to use its counted as a replacement meaning that it will technically do almost as many miles as this one.

How do you get to there from the rules? The rules just mention a penalty the first time a new engine is used. Once Massa has used this engine for this race, and he uses this same engine in a later race, then it won't be the first time for that engine, and there won't be a penalty. If Massa didn't replace the engine that they've taken out of the car, then he'd end the race with an engine that's done, I think, three race distances. Instead he'll finish the race with an engine that has done one race distance. And with no subsequent penalties for using this engine in later races. So, given the penalty means nothing for this race, he only benefits.

[FerrariFan63]

just to point out he still technically has 9, but in reality he has 8 right? as the one yesterday if not dead its gona be damaged and down on power.

Autosport said that it was actually a gearbox problem, not an engine problem. So, there's no real reason to assume that yesterday's engine is damaged, just that it's used.

[FerrariFan63]

From the way it was explained by Martin Brundle on the BBC is; yes they will effectively get a penalty free engine change but the engine being replaced can not be re-used for the remainder of the season but a fresher engine will certainly benefit Massa in the upcoming races rather than using an engine that has already done two race weekends.

So he doesn't get an extra engine to use; just a fresh replacement!

How do you get to there from the rules? The rules just mention a penalty the first time an additional engine is used. Providing that Massa has already used eight engines, which I believe he has, then he can use any of the nine engines in subsequent races. Unless the FIA has issued a clarification or similar. Otherwise, the rules are quite clear.

[Flux]

we both clearly got there from martin brundle. and as spanky ham pointed out earlier, he was wrong. read the thread.

oh and its still gonna be down on power now isnt it .

[FerrariFan63]

we both clearly got there from martin brundle. and as spanky ham pointed out earlier, he was wrong. read the thread.

oh and its still gonna be down on power now isnt it .

I quoted the actual regulations back on page 13 or so. I'm not sure how everything got so far off-track. But nevermind.

It's a brand new engine. How will it be down on power?

With it being difficult to overtake in Singapore, Ferrari may well turn the wick of the engine down, preserving the maximum amount of freshness for subsequent races?

[spankyham]

just to point out he still technically has 9, but in reality he has 8 right? as the one yesterday if not dead its gona be damaged and down on power.

I wonder why they used all of the engines when there's still an amount of races left?

The most Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren have used any engine for this year is 3 races.
They will all get to the final race and not use any engine more than 3 times (obviously excluding any blown engines between now and the end of the year).
Ferrari used 2 engines at the first race of the season because of possible heat problems.
Teams do not, and are not required under the rules, to use engines sequentially. A team can go back and used an engine they haven't used at the previous race.
Both McLaren and Ferrari used new engines at both Spa and Monza. They chose to do this because these are perceived to be the hardest tracks on engines, at Monza you're flat out on the throttle for perhaps 70% of the race.
The Spa engine from all 4 cars of Ferrari and McLaren are one race old and weren't used at Monza, but they can (and will) be used again before the end of the year.
For those who are interested as to how many races a team can reliably get from an engine, Ferrari and Mercedes engines have been run (by teams other than Ferrari and McLaren) for 4 races this year.
Barring blown engines all the major teams have no engine use problems.

[texasmr2]

Race starts in 40min's !!!