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[vaptin]

Hey, Badoer wasn't as bad as he looked in his little stand in.

What makes you say that? His performance was dire. I mean, fair enough he didn't have much real-world experience with that car or recent F1 racing experience, but he was plum last in the same car Kimi won in and then Fisi did a much more competent job filling the seat for the rest of the season. Again, some of that can be attributed to Fisi having more recent F1 experience, but then he did have to get used to the Ferrari way of doing things.

Fisi was still plumb last, I can't even remember seeing Badoer being on the grid before 09. Schumacher was supposed to be the stand in, so I guess he got most of the preparation. The season was more or less a write off for Ferrari, all Badoer needed to do was drive that car around keeping out of trouble which he did (whilst picking up fines for speeding in the pit land oddly). He was also fastest in the first sector in Spa in practice (consistently in the green there).

[kerc]

Anyone that says Jenson Button is the worse driver since blah, blah, blah... are frankly ignorance fools, you don't win world championships by being the worst driver, even in a good car; a bad driver can end up bringing up the rear, just look at Luca Badoer last year, he finished every race he competed in stone last. Jenson and Lewis are equally matched, very different drivers but over the course of a season they are pretty much on a level with each other. Jenson had the better start to the season, Lewis has had a better mid season and now going into the home stretch it seems that Jenson is coming to the fore again, I wouldn't like to call it between the two drivers!

Perfectly stated.

[FRAFPDD]

Anyone that says Jenson Button is the worse driver since blah, blah, blah... are frankly ignorance fools, you don't win world championships by being the worst driver, even in a good car; a bad driver can end up bringing up the rear, just look at Luca Badoer last year, he finished every race he competed in stone last. Jenson and Lewis are equally matched, very different drivers but over the course of a season they are pretty much on a level with each other. Jenson had the better start to the season, Lewis has had a better mid season and now going into the home stretch it seems that Jenson is coming to the fore again, I wouldn't like to call it between the two drivers!

Perfectly stated.

Not quite, Jenson better start fine, Lewis better mid season fne, jenson comingback again? what did i miss something, beats him in qualifying for the 2nd 3rd time this year and gets a podium whilst lewis DNF's does not mean that the tide is turning back, if i remember corrently jenson didnt finish spa nd hamilton won, which was only two races ago. Lets give credit where its due (Hamilton gets enough) to Button, but to sneakily claim things liek that doesnt make sense. I respect why you could assume and believe what you wrote but all to often in F1 and in these forums, people make such rash statements(myslf includd, but not this instance) based on one race.
I also think its unfair and very lawyer like to forget DNF's and massive bad luck ( in this instance Hamilton, and funnly enough somewhat Vettel) , i hate Shoulda woulda Coulda's but its true. Hamilton as performed better (not massively) then Button so far this season. Doesnt make Jenson any less of a WDC.

[f1ea]

Not quite, Jenson better start fine, Lewis better mid season fne, jenson comingback again? what did i miss something, beats him in qualifying for the 2nd 3rd time this year and gets a podium whilst lewis DNF's does not mean that the tide is turning back, if i remember corrently jenson didnt finish spa nd hamilton won, which was only two races ago. Lets give credit where its due (Hamilton gets enough) to Button, but to sneakily claim things liek that doesnt make sense. I respect why you could assume and believe what you wrote but all to often in F1 and in these forums, people make such rash statements(myslf includd, but not this instance) based on one race.
I also think its unfair and very lawyer like to forget DNF's and massive bad luck ( in this instance Hamilton, and funnly enough somewhat Vettel) , i hate Shoulda woulda Coulda's but its true. Hamilton as performed better (not massively) then Button so far this season. Doesnt make Jenson any less of a WDC.

All of Jenson's retirements came from absolutely out of his fault. The Spa race which Lewis won, he had Jenson quite close, and with the conditions near the end of the race... really, anything could have happened. The DNF in Monza was absolutely Lewis' fault. And not only that, but its the same type of mistakes he's done to complicate all his championship runs.

So claiming Lewis just got a DNF and Jenson had a good one for things to have turned, doesnt paint the real picture. What many people are claiming is not just based on a race.

Its true: Jenson does have a performance disadvantage to Lewis. Maybe due to the car, maybe due to the tires, due to him, whatever... the disadvantage is there. BUT if that was the defining thing, the Red Bulls would have it in the bag.

Really, i'm not going out of my way to defend Jenson. I would have to go much further out of my way to find a mistake he's made.

[kerc]

Anyone that says Jenson Button is the worse driver since blah, blah, blah... are frankly ignorance fools, you don't win world championships by being the worst driver, even in a good car; a bad driver can end up bringing up the rear, just look at Luca Badoer last year, he finished every race he competed in stone last. Jenson and Lewis are equally matched, very different drivers but over the course of a season they are pretty much on a level with each other. Jenson had the better start to the season, Lewis has had a better mid season and now going into the home stretch it seems that Jenson is coming to the fore again, I wouldn't like to call it between the two drivers!

Perfectly stated.

Not quite, Jenson better start fine, Lewis better mid season fne, jenson comingback again? what did i miss something, beats him in qualifying for the 2nd 3rd time this year and gets a podium whilst lewis DNF's does not mean that the tide is turning back, if i remember corrently jenson didnt finish spa nd hamilton won, which was only two races ago. Lets give credit where its due (Hamilton gets enough) to Button, but to sneakily claim things liek that doesnt make sense. I respect why you could assume and believe what you wrote but all to often in F1 and in these forums, people make such rash statements(myslf includd, but not this instance) based on one race.
I also think its unfair and very lawyer like to forget DNF's and massive bad luck ( in this instance Hamilton, and funnly enough somewhat Vettel) , i hate Shoulda woulda Coulda's but its true. Hamilton as performed better (not massively) then Button so far this season. Doesnt make Jenson any less of a WDC.

Lewis is my favorite driver, no question about it, but based on the decisions taken at Monza, Jenson keeps the cooler head and that work for his advantage. It could seem (I hope not!) that Lewis might crack a bit under the pressure.

Again, I really hope that's not the case. I want Lewis to win this year!

[Peng]

you don't win world championships by being the worst driver, even in a good car

I cant really agree with you on that :p even with a great car it doesn't automatically mean a win but an average driver can quite easily win if the car cant be matched like the RB6 has been for most of this season.

Button won last season because for one he had the best car and had a good advantage over every other driver but the main point was that he monopolized on that advantage and got himself a huge lead at the start of the season, by the end of the season we all know the Brawn car was no where near the likes of red bull or even Mclaren which was why neither Brawn drivers could really score heavily later in the season.

Compare that to this season with a similar advantage for 1 team yet they haven't monopolized on the advantage and they have actually had the advantage for most of the season.

Button has always been a good driver i wouldn't say he is on the same level as Hamilton or Alonso but Button has a very different style of driving, compare that to Webber and Vettel who i'm sorry to have to say are average drivers if you compare them to some of the drivers on the grid, Webber is having the season of his life but even with the advantage he has with the RB6 he is still barely ahead and well Vettel needs a few years in him.

So no you don't win world championships by being the worst driver but you can quite easily win a world championship by being an average driver in an amazing car, which is kind of sad since the best driver should be the winner but than again this sport is almost 50% about the car and the development on the car during the season and Mclaren and Ferrari should have caught them up long ago.

[Peng]

Really, i'm not going out of my way to defend Jenson. I would have to go much further out of my way to find a mistake he's made.

That is what i love about Jenson he may not be the fastest driver out there but seriously can you ever remember him making a huge mistake?

He is probably the smoothest most consistent driver on the grid and he is actually an amazing overtaker when given the chance, but sadly he has never really had the pace people like Hamilton, Alonso and yes even Vettel have shown.

[Hammer278]

Not quite, Jenson better start fine, Lewis better mid season fne, jenson comingback again? what did i miss something, beats him in qualifying for the 2nd 3rd time this year and gets a podium whilst lewis DNF's does not mean that the tide is turning back, if i remember corrently jenson didnt finish spa nd hamilton won, which was only two races ago. Lets give credit where its due (Hamilton gets enough) to Button, but to sneakily claim things liek that doesnt make sense. I respect why you could assume and believe what you wrote but all to often in F1 and in these forums, people make such rash statements(myslf includd, but not this instance) based on one race.
I also think its unfair and very lawyer like to forget DNF's and massive bad luck ( in this instance Hamilton, and funnly enough somewhat Vettel) , i hate Shoulda woulda Coulda's but its true. Hamilton as performed better (not massively) then Button so far this season. Doesnt make Jenson any less of a WDC.

All of Jenson's retirements came from absolutely out of his fault. The Spa race which Lewis won, he had Jenson quite close, and with the conditions near the end of the race... really, anything could have happened. The DNF in Monza was absolutely Lewis' fault. And not only that, but its the same type of mistakes he's done to complicate all his championship runs.

So claiming Lewis just got a DNF and Jenson had a good one for things to have turned, doesnt paint the real picture. What many people are claiming is not just based on a race.

Its true: Jenson does have a performance disadvantage to Lewis. Maybe due to the car, maybe due to the tires, due to him, whatever... the disadvantage is there. BUT if that was the defining thing, the Red Bulls would have it in the bag.

Really, i'm not going out of my way to defend Jenson. I would have to go much further out of my way to find a mistake he's made.

I'm sorry but that bolded part got me laughing. Have you recorded the race? I hope you have so you can go back and see how far Lewis was galloping into the distance...he could've come into the pits and sipped down a lukewarm coffee and still made it out in front of Jenson. There was a massive train behind the 2nd McLaren, which till today isn't justified.

[smokin]

...he had Jenson quite close, and with the conditions near the end of the race...

I'm sorry but that bolded part got me laughing. Have you recorded the race? I hope you have so you can go back and see how far Lewis was galloping into the distance...he could've come into the pits and sipped down a lukewarm coffee and still made it out in front of Jenson. There was a massive train behind the 2nd McLaren, which till today isn't justified.

I agree with the start of your post but didn't Jenson have a busted front wing?

[Hammer278]

He had a damaged endplate which wasn't much of a deal, but no matter what, he was nowhere "close" to Lewis in that race weekend. Plus Rosberg's wing was a lot more damaged and he could still carry on a respectable pace! Even Alonsos wing was damaged in Monza at the first corner, not many people noticed since his pace wasn't affected much.

The way how people try and minimise the gap of performance between the two McLaren drivers are quite obviously telling, that it is pretty difficult to recognise Lewis' talent. Sometimes, you don't want to see the pink elephant right in front of your face as you don't want to believe it exists.

[spankyham]

For me they both have positives:-
Lewis has the stats in his favor this year, 9 to 5 in qualifying and 9 to 5 in the races.
On the other hand, Jenson hasn't done this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qlv20vbhxE
Clearly didn't wait to get enough temp into his runners, and, I heard his manager insisted a similar pair of Nikes be tested with the flo-vis

[racechick]

Regarding DNF's. I see them as two each that were not their fault -Lewis the engine and the tyre thing (both in high scoring positions) . Jens -the engine thing and Vettel. And then Lewis had one that was his own fault. So up to this point Lewis' faster more aggressive style is winning out -its allowed him to remain ahead with a DNF, but only just. He cant afford another.

[nish2280]

Regarding DNF's. I see them as two each that were not their fault -Lewis the engine and the tyre thing (both in high scoring positions) . Jens -the engine thing and Vettel. And then Lewis had one that was his own fault. So up to this point Lewis' faster more aggressive style is winning out -its allowed him to remain ahead with a DNF, but only just. He cant afford another.

How does it matter? Lewis will win. A DNF is impossible for Hamilton unless it isnt his fault at all. Which it will never be.

[Peng]

How does it matter? Lewis will win. A DNF is impossible for Hamilton unless it isnt his fault at all. Which it will never be.

He actually stated it was his fault in Monza last weekend or maybe you didn't notice?

[Jensonb]

Hey, Badoer wasn't as bad as he looked in his little stand in.

What makes you say that? His performance was dire. I mean, fair enough he didn't have much real-world experience with that car or recent F1 racing experience, but he was plum last in the same car Kimi won in and then Fisi did a much more competent job filling the seat for the rest of the season. Again, some of that can be attributed to Fisi having more recent F1 experience, but then he did have to get used to the Ferrari way of doing things.

Fisi was still plumb last, I can't even remember seeing Badoer being on the grid before 09. Schumacher was supposed to be the stand in, so I guess he got most of the preparation. The season was more or less a write off for Ferrari, all Badoer needed to do was drive that car around keeping out of trouble which he did (whilst picking up fines for speeding in the pit land oddly). He was also fastest in the first sector in Spa in practice (consistently in the green there).

Well to be perfectly honest, Marc Gené should have been given the drive, he had tested the car. Badoer had not. I don't know why Ferrari opted to throw Luca in the deep end like that.