FORUMula1.com

[The Immortal Dragon]

Well today Hamilton screwed up on Lesmos (or ascari?) and got caught in traffic behind the RedBulls. Hamilton will still triumph on race day though.
That makes it 9-5 in qualifying now.. the races are still 11-2 based on performance.. soon to be 12 - 2.

I'll hold you to that tomorrow. Are you old enough to bet?

Yeah, I wouldn't be so sure Hamilton will triumph over Button tomorrow.
His car does look a bit unstable and he just wasn't as quick as Button today.

[Hammer278]

Don't count out Lewis that fast. He is aggressive, and his speed is pretty much up to par with Mr Hold Station. His fastest laptime in Q3 doesn't compare to Q2 where he did a very low 1:22. He messed up at the most important part, that's all.

I don't mind holding a bet with someone, providing both Lewis and Jenson get through Lap 1 unscathed. Honestly, this is one race in the season where everything's a massive lottery right up till the cars have done the 1st lap.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Don't count out Lewis that fast. He is aggressive, and his speed is pretty much up to par with Mr Hold Station. His fastest laptime in Q3 doesn't compare to Q2 where he did a very low 1:22. He messed up at the most important part, that's all.

I don't mind holding a bet with someone, providing both Lewis and Jenson get through Lap 1 unscathed. Honestly, this is one race in the season where everything's a massive lottery right up till the cars have done the 1st lap.

I am not counting him out; he is a great driver, indeed.
I am just saying I am not sure he will triumph

[FRAFPDD]

Im a huge Hamilton fan but im glad Button beat him today, i like Button more and more(although hell never top Lewis for me) , hes clearly a tactical master and so clever, problem is his raw speed, if he was just that little bit closer to Hamilton in qualifying hed probably be as good a driver IMO.Problem is like i just aid that raw speed is what dominates performance in F1, you dont always have wet races, or the need to be clever, and as a result F1 doesnt play to Jensons strengts as much as it does Hamiltons.

However having said that i hope Lewis carves up the entire field tomorrow including General Button.

[f1ea]

Im a huge Hamilton fan but im glad Button beat him today, i like Button more and more(although hell never top Lewis for me) , hes clearly a tactical master and so clever, problem is his raw speed, if he was just that little bit closer to Hamilton in qualifying hed probably be as good a driver IMO.Problem is like i just aid that raw speed is what dominates performance in F1, you dont always have wet races, or the need to be clever, and as a result F1 doesnt play to Jensons strengts as much as it does Hamiltons.
However having said that i hope Lewis carves up the entire field tomorrow including General Button.

Raw speed is not what dominates performance in F1.

[FRAFPDD]

Im a huge Hamilton fan but im glad Button beat him today, i like Button more and more(although hell never top Lewis for me) , hes clearly a tactical master and so clever, problem is his raw speed, if he was just that little bit closer to Hamilton in qualifying hed probably be as good a driver IMO.Problem is like i just aid that raw speed is what dominates performance in F1, you dont always have wet races, or the need to be clever, and as a result F1 doesnt play to Jensons strengts as much as it does Hamiltons.
However having said that i hope Lewis carves up the entire field tomorrow including General Button.

Raw speed is not what dominates performance in F1.

Instead of just making a contrasting statement why dont you expand on what does?

[f1ea]

Raw speed is not what dominates performance in F1.

Instead of just making a contrasting statement why dont you expand on what does?

if F1 were waht DOMINATES performance... you would have had for the past 10 yrs (and the past 5 yrs) raw speed drivers winning the championships. And that hasnt happened.

If raw speed DOMINATES then Senna would have DOMINATED... and he didnt. In fact he was not that far better if any better than Prost. (this is not a Senna vs Prost argument, but for example taking a WDC in the last race is not exactly dominating). Dominating is what Jenson did last yr... and surprise surprise... he's not a raw speed driver.

If raw speed DOMINATES then (according to the i-dont-know-where-it-comes-from-conclusion that for example Lewis is raw speed and Button not) then Lewis would be cruising vs Button, and he isnt.

If raw speed DOMINATES then teams wouldnt waste their money and time developping stuff and thinking about strategies when simple raw speed would just walk away with the titles.

Schumacher DOMINATED... and he isnt a simply "raw speed" driver.


So... What DOMINATES F1 performance?
A mix between: a good car design that enhances the driver, a solid reliable car, consistency and luck.

But i would have rather you figured that out all by yourself...
(that was a purposedly arrogant line hehe)

[FRAFPDD]

If your car is slow, you dont dominate, if you car is fast, you do.

Brawn 2009
Red Bull 2010

I dont mean straight line speed either, you win by doing things the fastest whether that be the driver input or car.

you qualify on pole by racing the fastest lap. Just cause i claim it dominates doesnt mean anything else (luck, strategy etc) has no part.

[Jensonb]

If your car is slow, you dont dominate, if you car is fast, you do.

Brawn 2009
Red Bull 2010

I dont mean straight line speed either, you win by doing things the fastest whether that be the driver input or car.

you qualify on pole by racing the fastest lap. Just cause i claim it dominates doesnt mean anything else (luck, strategy etc) has no part.

Your equating pace with raw speed, there's an important distinction. Pace includes consistency over a race distance as well as raw speed. Raw speed relates to getting the maximum possible, however briefly - eg. over one lap.

[FRAFPDD]

If your car is slow, you dont dominate, if you car is fast, you do.

Brawn 2009
Red Bull 2010

I dont mean straight line speed either, you win by doing things the fastest whether that be the driver input or car.

you qualify on pole by racing the fastest lap. Just cause i claim it dominates doesnt mean anything else (luck, strategy etc) has no part.

Your equating pace with raw speed, there's an important distinction. Pace includes consistency over a race distance as well as raw speed. Raw speed relates to getting the maximum possible, however briefly - eg. over one lap.

OK yeah your right, but you can see what i mean, the whole format of F1 today and for some time since has been on setting fast times and driving fast.
Either way this is off topic by a country mile

[myownalias]

Back on topic; this race at Monza is make or break for Jenson; he needs a decent points haul over Lewis to be able to sustain a title challenge; with everything so tight at the top; McLaren and Red Bull will soon need to decide which basket to put all their eggs in; as things stand that's Webber and Hamilton. For Jenson a DNF for Lewis with himself winning the race is the best he can hope for as suddenly Jenson will be striking distance of his team mate again. In this race I believe he has a good chance of winning it; he seems very happy with his car; he seems to have the stable car he thrives on driving, so fingers crossed for Jenson, keeping the title race alive between the two Britons!

[darwin dali]

Raw speed is not what dominates performance in F1.

Instead of just making a contrasting statement why dont you expand on what does?

if F1 were waht DOMINATES performance... you would have had for the past 10 yrs (and the past 5 yrs) raw speed drivers winning the championships. And that hasnt happened.

If raw speed DOMINATES then Senna would have DOMINATED... and he didnt. In fact he was not that far better if any better than Prost. (this is not a Senna vs Prost argument, but for example taking a WDC in the last race is not exactly dominating). Dominating is what Jenson did last yr... and surprise surprise... he's not a raw speed driver.

If raw speed DOMINATES then (according to the i-dont-know-where-it-comes-from-conclusion that for example Lewis is raw speed and Button not) then Lewis would be cruising vs Button, and he isnt.

If raw speed DOMINATES then teams wouldnt waste their money and time developping stuff and thinking about strategies when simple raw speed would just walk away with the titles.

Schumacher DOMINATED... and he isnt a simply "raw speed" driver.


So... What DOMINATES F1 performance?
A mix between: a good car design that enhances the driver, a solid reliable car, consistency and luck.

But i would have rather you figured that out all by yourself...
(that was a purposedly arrogant line hehe)

I too dominate and do it with excruciating slowness

[racechick]

Back on topic; this race at Monza is make or break for Jenson; he needs a decent points haul over Lewis to be able to sustain a title challenge; with everything so tight at the top; McLaren and Red Bull will soon need to decide which basket to put all their eggs in; as things stand that's Webber and Hamilton. For Jenson a DNF for Lewis with himself winning the race is the best he can hope for as suddenly Jenson will be striking distance of his team mate again. In this race I believe he has a good chance of winning it; he seems very happy with his car; he seems to have the stable car he thrives on driving, so fingers crossed for Jenson, keeping the title race alive between the two Britons!

And Lewis is not happy with his car . Me, i want Lewis to come through of course, but id Like jens to do well. I still think (as lewis said) that the best thing for Mclaren is that they both score as well as they can and stuff the favouritising one idea. So if Jens can do it tomoro, then go do it Jens! Go get Alonso!!

[Hammer278]

Lewis can forget about what Jenson is up to and just focus on scoring as many points as possible while keeping the Redbulls behind him.

Once this GP rolls off and we go back to high down force tracks, Jenson will go back to being his rear gunner anyway, but the Redbulls will wake up once again, which is the prime concern at this stage of the season.

[FRAFPDD]

Lewis can forget about what Jenson is up to and just focus on scoring as many points as possible while keeping the Redbulls behind him.

Once this GP rolls off and we go back to high down force tracks, Jenson will go back to being his rear gunner anyway, but the Redbulls will wake up once again, which is the prime concern at this stage of the season.

, totally agree, not to annoy anyone (jensonb) but i dnt see Button as a threat anymore, he should be thankful its not a webber vettel 1-2 on the grid with him 5th, and be over the moon its alonso and button, who are respectively the least and second least biggest threats to the WDC at the moment.Im hoping, and it really could happen, that with the clean side fo the grid, Hamiltn takes Webber (if he makes a really good start maybe take Massa at some point in the first lap) and Vettel and Webber proceed to reapeat Turkey at some point and both dont receive any points. Its more likelythen you think. Point is, Hamilton needs to gain points on Webber today, preferably a good amount.