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[What's Burning?]

Hey Spankyham looks like you're the dive right in and start making waves kind of guy huh? At least give yourself a proper introduction so we can all make you feel welcomed.

[f1ea]

If one of them can no longer win and moves over it will be his decision because of these reasons NOT team orders.

There you go.

[Peng]

The team is bigger than the drivers, the drivers race for the team. McLaren can handle it how they want, but I think they're being stupid and are just not confident in being able to keep their drivers happy.

I don't really get what they are being stupid about.

There are plenty of races left and its not like Button is out of contention for the WDC even if most people believe he isn't a good driver, id agree if it goes down to the last race and Button ends up finishing 1 place ahead of Hamilton which costs Hamilton his WDC for example but when you have 2 cars that could win the WDC team orders shouldn't even be a consideration.

I'm not encouraging them to use it now, but hasn't Whitmarsh just said in your example that team orders wouldn't happen and he'd rather lose the WDC? He seems to be making an ideological statement that they will not happen at all (within Mclaren).

And as i said if the example i gave were to happen in Abu Dahbi i would agree with you that the team and drivers were stupid, but there are plenty of races left and neither driver really has the upper hand especially considering how the season has gone so far.
What happens if in 4 races time Mclaren decide to go with Hamilton to win the WDC and he finishes 1 place ahead of Button in Brasil but than crashes out in Abu Dhabi and Button looses the WDC by a couple of points which he would have had if he had finished ahead of Hamilton in Brasil? you would say that Mclaren were stupid to pick Hamilton over Button.

You cant predict the future even if 1 car is significantly faster for most of the season it doesn't mean he will be at the end aswell, so in my opinion using team orders to help 1 driver win by sacrificing the other is just silly and in most cases if you have 2 competent drivers letting them battle it out all the way gives you twice the chance of winning the WDC and a much higher chance of winning the WCC (unless you have Vettel).

If people want Team orders than teams should have a clear number one and number two driver system which as far as i know has never and hopefully never will happen.

[vaptin]

Yeah, but the situation's different for McLaren, Lewis is already leading the WDC, Ferrari had a lot of catching up to do if they wanted a WDC,

[Jensonb]

The team is bigger than the drivers, the drivers race for the team. McLaren can handle it how they want, but I think they're being stupid and are just not confident in being able to keep their drivers happy.

I don't really get what they are being stupid about.

There are plenty of races left and its not like Button is out of contention for the WDC even if most people believe he isn't a good driver,

Most idiots maybe

id agree if it goes down to the last race and Button ends up finishing 1 place ahead of Hamilton which costs Hamilton his WDC for example but when you have 2 cars that could win the WDC team orders shouldn't even be a consideration.

Right, but personally I feel that even if it is down to the last race like that, it should be the driver's decision, not the team's.

[What's Burning?]

Can't believe we're still talking about this... FIA said team orders are now tolerated for 100k a pop, for the worst offense.

Let's move on people, we've got a level playing field if you so choose to play in it.

[Jensonb]

Can't believe we're still talking about this... FIA said team orders are now tolerated for 100k a pop, for the worst offense.

Let's move on people, we've got a level playing field if you so choose to play in it.

If you don't want to talk about it you're quite free to not click on the threads discussing it.

[f1ea]

Lewis and Jenson have been practically tied. So were Webber and Vettel.

Team orders for either would have made no sense. So, they are not really being more honorable than anybody, they are just making sense like everybody would.

[racechick]

If one of them can no longer win and moves over it will be his decision because of these reasons NOT team orders.

There you go.

What do you mean "There you go"?

You only quoted part of what i said and it makes no sense. The reason they would move would be a personal decison(because they are friends, team mates and honourable) not a team order. This was the bit you didnt quote.

[supeindesu]

The team is bigger than the drivers, the drivers race for the team. McLaren can handle it how they want, but I think they're being stupid and are just not confident in being able to keep their drivers happy.

No its just they're a race team not a team for prima donna's. Whats the big deal in winning if you can only do it if your biggest rival is ordered to pull over?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHd8n1D4wkM

[Peng]

Lewis and Jenson have been practically tied. So were Webber and Vettel.

Team orders for either would have made no sense. So, they are not really being more honorable than anybody, they are just making sense like everybody would.

Lewis has been faster in both Quali and on Race days than Jenson all season which is exactly the same excuse people are giving Ferrari, yet that hasn't stopped Jenson being only slightly behind Lewis and at one point leading the WDC because of his wins.

When Ferrari made the decision there were 8 races left a possible 200 points to be won and Massa was what 30-40 behind Alonso? i would say the call was made way too early since as i said anything can happen in a race for all Ferrari knew Alonso could have gotten DNFs in several of the races where as Massa could have finished on the podium in every race.

Again you cant see into the future and so you can say Ferrari were smart but from looking at it several races later in the end it didn't really help at all, although in 5 races time it could be the deciding factor between who wins the WDC.

To me anyone claiming Ferrari did the right thing is stupid unless you could clearly see into the future which if you could than i advise you to place a bet and hope team orders don't screw you over on winning some £££.

[supeindesu]

To me anyone claiming Ferrari did the right thing is stupid unless you could clearly see into the future which if you could than i advise you to place a bet and hope team orders don't screw you over on winning some £££.

Take a look at the previous video... 1st race of the season and...

[vaptin]

Teams can't see into the future,but sometimes they have to gamble it you know, look where Alonso and Massa were in relation to the WDC leader in Germany, now look where Button and Hamilton are - oh wait, Hamilton is the WDC leader.

[Peng]

Teams can't see into the future,but sometimes they have to gamble it you know, look where Alonso and Massa were in relation to the WDC leader in Germany, now look where Button and Hamilton are - oh wait, Hamilton is the WDC leader.

So you think Ferrari were smart to gamble at that early of a point in the season? you claim Mclaren are being stupid not going for 1 driver even with a good deal of races left so you must think Ferrari are made the right choice even though looking at the points now it didn't even really help Alonso.

[vaptin]

Teams can't see into the future,but sometimes they have to gamble it you know, look where Alonso and Massa were in relation to the WDC leader in Germany, now look where Button and Hamilton are - oh wait, Hamilton is the WDC leader.

So you think Ferrari were smart to gamble at that early of a point in the season? you claim Mclaren are being stupid not going for 1 driver even with a good deal of races left so you must think Ferrari are made the right choice even though looking at the points now it didn't even really help Alonso.

I diddn't say that actually (your latter point), I said I think its stupid they've said they'll never use team orders at all, which was how I've read it.

Was it smart? maybe, maybe not. Was justification there? Yes. Also, I suspect Massa knew the score within Ferrari, he's been at the team long enough.