FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[smokin]

Unless (or rather, even if) Red Bull get shafted with this flexi wing business that track will still suit them down to the ground.

Oh very good, scotty, very good.

[Hammer278]

Williams technical director Sam Michael is amazed some Formula One teams are considering removing their F-ducts for this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

Most teams are expected to turn up to Monza with the option of either running the system or leaving it off and will complete back-to-back comparisons during Friday practice.

The thinking behind leaving the system off is that the difference in drag between a stalled wing while running the F-duct and the low-downforce wing used at Monza normally is so small that there would be little to gain by running it. Instead, teams could lower the centre of gravity by removing the extra weight of the F-duct at the top of the engine cover.

But speaking at the last grand prix in Belgium, Michael said he was surprised some teams were contemplating not running an F-duct at Monza.

"I don't really understand that," he told reporters. "I don't know where that story came from to be honest. I think someone was just playing around."

Michael said using an F-duct at the Monza is a "no-brainer".

"On the Monza wing that we've got, it [an F-duct] is a massive drag difference. So I don't know why you wouldn't do it. It's a stalled wing, so if the wing stalls then it stalls. I think everyone will run it."

At Hungary and Monaco the majority of teams removed their F-ducts as the straights were not long enough to gain an advantage. McLaren did not, but that was only because it did not have an alternative engine cover and wing ready to race.

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Voice of reason as far as I'm concerned!! I never got from the start why the F-duct wouldn't be an advantage in Monza! Yes, everyone states downforce levels are almost insignificant, but the fact is the wing is not completely stalled as the cars have to handle the fast corners at Monza don't they? This would mean there is still a significant degree of 'attack' on the wing which would make the F-duct still significant.

The only time the F-duct would not be of any use is if the F1 cars take off the rear wing altogether. Which isn't the case.

Granted, the duct won't be as effective as on other tracks, but its effect will be pretty significant due to the time duration it is in use - Much longer than on other tracks due to the long long straights on the track! Sam Michael's on my side this time around!

[darwin dali]

The only time the F-duct would not be of any use is if the F1 cars take off the rear wing altogether. Which isn't the case.

Or they drive in Monaco or Hungary...

[LifeW12]

McLaren can afford to run more downforce here so they should dominate

Force India for a podium

[Hammer278]

The only time the F-duct would not be of any use is if the F1 cars take off the rear wing altogether. Which isn't the case.

Or they drive in Monaco or Hungary...

Theoretically speaking, if the F-duct does not hamper the weight distribution of the car, it will still be useful!! Though not too much.

[nish2280]

McLaren can afford to run more downforce here so they should dominate

Force India for a podium

Yea but the fact is that they wont need the extra downforce. They will be running wings as close to flat as possible and the F-Duct will just stall that as well as possible.

[f1ea]

McLaren can afford to run more downforce here so they should dominate

Force India for a podium

Yea but the fact is that they wont need the extra downforce. They will be running wings as close to flat as possible and the F-Duct will just stall that as well as possible.

Everybody can afford more downforce, they just don't need it (and therefore dont run it). Monza is mostly about riding the kerbs and superior engine power.

[Jensonb]

My understanding is the doubt about using F-Ducts in Monza relates to the size of the rear wing element used. Some of the systems might be rendered virtually useless because the teams will be running smaller elements than usual apparently.

Evidently this isn't an absolutely confirmed problem, because McLaren haven't decided yet and Sam has indicated Williams don't see an issue at all.

[scotty]

Remember, the teams run special Monza aero packages. Perhaps some are so that they don't need or are hindered by the duct, hence why some teams are deliberating over it and some are convinced it should be run.

[vaptin]

Well if they bring both versions to the track, surely it'll become apparent to the teams soon enough.

If we're talking f-ducts, Renault have done very well to produce an effective one from the first race its used, although it took them a while to get there, but maybe thats just lack of resources which doesn't look like being a problem next year. In terms of development and consistency though, they've done very well.

[Jensonb]

Well if they bring both versions to the track, surely it'll become apparent to the teams soon enough.

If we're talking f-ducts, Renault have done very well to produce an effective one from the first race its used, although it took them a while to get there, but maybe thats just lack of resources which doesn't look like being a problem next year. In terms of development and consistency though, they've done very well.

Ironically though, my understanding is they will definitely not run their F-Duct in Monza.

[f1ea]

Well if they bring both versions to the track, surely it'll become apparent to the teams soon enough.

If we're talking f-ducts, Renault have done very well to produce an effective one from the first race its used, although it took them a while to get there, but maybe thats just lack of resources which doesn't look like being a problem next year. In terms of development and consistency though, they've done very well.

I am sure we and the teams can all safely and proudly say" "we dont know" (whether the Fduct brings an advantage for Monza or not).

Its no big deal... its not so straightforward anyways, and the teams will definitely spend some time (and perhaps some testing time) figuring out whether to use it or not. if its good for Mclaren they'll run it. It its good for Renault they'll run it. Simple.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

The only time the F-duct would not be of any use is if the F1 cars take off the rear wing altogether. Which isn't the case.

Or they drive in Monaco or Hungary...

Theoretically speaking, if the F-duct does not hamper the weight distribution of the car, it will still be useful!! Though not too much.

The ductwork within the shark's fin, which is at very nearly the highest point on the car, which means it also raises CG. An extra gram that high has a longer moment arm than an extra gram lower down and a greater influence on the car's rolling moment as it corners.

[Hammer278]

I believe like scotty said, it depends how 'integrated' the FD is in the respective chassis. Renault who have just got it made are definitely not running it shows they have a package where the duct can be removed quite easily. As for McLaren, it is pretty effectively integrated in the chassis, it will be difficult to work without it.....I believe their main concern is would it be worth for the drivers to have only 1 hand on the steering wheel for nearly the whole lap! They could lose focus that way.

[darwin dali]

I believe like scotty said, it depends how 'integrated' the FD is in the respective chassis. Renault who have just got it made are definitely not running it shows they have a package where the duct can be removed quite easily. As for McLaren, it is pretty effectively integrated in the chassis, it will be difficult to work without it.....I believe their main concern is would it be worth for the drivers to have only 1 hand on the steering wheel for nearly the whole lap! They could lose focus that way.

The McLaren F-duct is operated by the left knee, not the hand.