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[f1ea]

Its a very hard call, and Spa is not a "Red Bull" (nor Ferrari it would seem) circuit.
However on race pace Vettel in particular was not the customary .5 sec a lap faster.

I think we'll have to wait a couple of races to see if RBR have surreptitiously "stiffened" their wing to pass the new tests, and if this has any discernible performance effects.

And yet, they got pole and Vettel/Webber were definitely on the pace... again, i dont think the new wing tests played a part in Spa. Force India had a stiff wing, and they were super fast more or less as Mclaren. The Merc engine and fduct seemed proven to be more decisive in Spa than anything else.

[What's Burning?]

Its a very hard call, and Spa is not a "Red Bull" (nor Ferrari it would seem) circuit.
However on race pace Vettel in particular was not the customary .5 sec a lap faster.

I think we'll have to wait a couple of races to see if RBR have surreptitiously "stiffened" their wing to pass the new tests, and if this has any discernible performance effects.

And yet, they got pole and Vettel/Webber were definitely on the pace... again, i dont think the new wing tests played a part in Spa. Force India had a stiff wing, and they were super fast more or less as Mclaren. The Merc engine and fduct seemed proven to be more decisive in Spa than anything else.

Red Bull have always been fast in qualifying, at this point you have to separate that since that advantage in qualifying doesn't translate linearly as it does for the McLaren cars in race pace.

You're allowed your opinion as to the whether or not the test played a part. Withmarsh, Button, Brawn and others have stated publicly that they felt it did play a part and the RB race pace was off. Of particular note: the pole was by 85/100th of a second, not their usual .8 to 1.5 seconds of late.

[bud]

Yeah its a bit hard to fully judge due to the conditions and the track suiting McLaren like Canada did, but Redbull usually had .5 .8 of an advantage but Lewis only being .080 would suggest their advantage was null and void. But like i said too hard to judge!

[f1ea]

Red Bull have always been fast in qualifying, at this point you have to separate that since that advantage in qualifying doesn't translate linearly as it does for the McLaren cars in race pace.

Red Bull were also very fast in the race.

You're allowed your opinion as to the whether or not the test played a part. Withmarsh, Button, Brawn and others have stated publicly that they felt it did play a part and the RB race pace was off. Of particular note: the pole was by 85/100th of a second, not their usual .8 to 1.5 seconds of late.

The ussual 0.8-1.5 secs of late were in MUCH different tracks and under weird Q conditions. You can tell by Webber getting his pole lap in his 1st run. like Bud said.. its too difficult to pin where the advantage lies and whether Red Bull modified some settings in their wing for the test or for some other reasons (if they even modified it at all). For example, the wing can behave like a suspension... even though its the same unaltered wing/chassis concept, its stiffness in relation to the bottom can be adjusted to suit a particular track requring less downforce.

[bud]

heres video of Vettels wings behind Button, adding on to what JensonB posted earlier.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xem3t3 ... ttel_sport

taken from this article http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41884

[What's Burning?]

Red Bull have always been fast in qualifying, at this point you have to separate that since that advantage in qualifying doesn't translate linearly as it does for the McLaren cars in race pace.

Red Bull were also very fast in the race.

You're allowed your opinion as to the whether or not the test played a part. Withmarsh, Button, Brawn and others have stated publicly that they felt it did play a part and the RB race pace was off. Of particular note: the pole was by 85/100th of a second, not their usual .8 to 1.5 seconds of late.

The ussual 0.8-1.5 secs of late were in MUCH different tracks and under weird Q conditions. You can tell by Webber getting his pole lap in his 1st run. like Bud said.. its too difficult to pin where the advantage lies and whether Red Bull modified some settings in their wing for the test or for some other reasons (if they even modified it at all). For example, the wing can behave like a suspension... even though its the same unaltered wing/chassis concept, its stiffness in relation to the bottom can be adjusted to suit a particular track requring less downforce.

Agreed... but with all due respect, I'd trust Whitmarsh or Brawn's or an F1 driver's opinion more than yours on this issue.

[f1ea]

Agreed... but with all due respect, I'd trust Whitmarsh or Brawn's or an F1 driver's opinion more than yours on this issue.

And I agree with Newey's opinion, who said their wing wasnt to be changed for Spa due to the new tests.


<EDIT>
Oh... and Horner's too:
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 27227.html

[What's Burning?]

heres video of Vettels wings behind Button, adding on to what JensonB posted earlier.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xem3t3 ... ttel_sport

taken from this article http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41884

OK FINALLY GOT TO SEE THE VIDEO! Since we're BBC's red headed stepchild in the US.

So one thing of note that no one has mention is that the flex is completely different. That's a seesaw motion meaning the flex pivot is in the middle of the wing. All previously videotaped flex showed a simultaneous flex like a bird wing flap.

WAAAAAAAY different from an engineering standpoint.

[What's Burning?]

Agreed... but with all due respect, I'd trust Whitmarsh or Brawn's or an F1 driver's opinion more than yours on this issue.

And I agree with Newey's opinion, who said their wing wasnt to be changed for Spa due to the new tests.


<EDIT>
Oh... and Horner's too:
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 27227.html

PR speak for we switched to an old wing. Technically they didn't change a thing on it.

[f1ea]

PR speak for we switched to an old wing. Technically they didn't change a thing on it.

Button's, Whitmarsh's and Brawn's = PR for
"we still want the FIA, media and fans all over their wing and to keep with the tests, which are showing us know how the damn thing gets done".

[bud]

heres video of Vettels wings behind Button, adding on to what JensonB posted earlier.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xem3t3 ... ttel_sport

taken from this article http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41884

OK FINALLY GOT TO SEE THE VIDEO! Since we're BBC's red headed stepchild in the US.

So one thing of note that no one has mention is that the flex is completely different. That's a seesaw motion meaning the flex pivot is in the middle of the wing. All previously videotaped flex showed a simultaneous flex like a bird wing flap.

WAAAAAAAY different from an engineering standpoint.

it does raise and lower some questions

[Juliet P]

Agreed... but with all due respect, I'd trust Whitmarsh or Brawn's or an F1 driver's opinion more than yours on this issue.

And I agree with Newey's opinion, who said their wing wasnt to be changed for Spa due to the new tests.


<EDIT>
Oh... and Horner's too:
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 27227.html

Yeah, cos they have nothing at all to gain by lying. <sarcasm>

[f1ea]

Agreed... but with all due respect, I'd trust Whitmarsh or Brawn's or an F1 driver's opinion more than yours on this issue.

And I agree with Newey's opinion, who said their wing wasnt to be changed for Spa due to the new tests.


<EDIT>
Oh... and Horner's too:
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 27227.html

Yeah, cos they have nothing at all to gain by lying. <sarcasm>

I take it you're assuming nobody else does... (gain something by lying).

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Here's an excellent supposition on how the droopy nose works. The Martin Whitmarsh remarks settle the question over who ratted to the FIA.

[What's Burning?]

Here's an excellent supposition on how the droopy nose works. The Martin Whitmarsh remarks settle the question over who ratted to the FIA.

WOW... Brawn saying that fact may change the end of season run to the championship.