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[The Immortal Dragon]

I think Vettel is better than what he has shown to date.
If he can up his game a bit and remain calm, he can certainly win the WDC... and I hope for him he will!
(I've always liked him, for some reason)

[f1ea]

Hope Mark wins this years as I really can't be bothered with Vettel, who IMO ain't as good as he thinks he is.
Not a fan of Red Bull as a team TBH but Webber is a decent guy who should be given the teams backing for the championship now.

Ah. So you do like the team backing one driver over the other?
interesting to know. I wonder how many more will feel the same.

[elfinitty]

Whats with you two? Honestly i dont think you watch Formula One or you just dont know how to read that well. First of all he didnt say it wasnt Vettel's fault. He just said that Vettel didnt do it on purpose. And I'm sure if Webber did the same thing Horner would have said the same thing.

And many of you forget the mistake Webber made in Australia when he rear ended hamilton and ruined both their races, this makes me think that you might just have an irrational hatred for Vettel.

First of all,you cant judge people like that.You know neither of us.And,i just say what i see.I am not going to think:'Oh,what would people think if i say my opinion?' I do watch F1 but i miss lots of races since i have been traveling all the summer.My English isnt too good to understand everything said in F1 sites.Maybe i am wrong about favoritsm of RBR,i never say i am 100% true.

What seems to me is that RBR favoritisms Vettel because he is younger,it would be great to make him pleasant(that would be good for them if Vettel becomes champion) and they can make lots of money on him-for example from advertisements.But they are being so cruel to Webber.He isnt treated like a part of the team.I was really disappointed after the thing happened on July 11st-a race which i missed for some reason,i have read comments afterwards-

I think people do have an irrational hatred for Vettel, and to be honest it does seem like Jensonb and efinitty are two of those.
RBR do *not* inexplicably favour Sebastian Vettel as you both claim, as I am sure they would have said the exact same words if Webber would have crashed into Button on Sunday. I am certain of that.

Also, claiming that RBR favour Vettel more than Ferrari favour Alonso is astonishing to me. I have no idea how somebody could say that if not because of an irrational hatred for Sebastian Vettel.

My answer to this quote would be similiar to my answer to nish2280's reply.Plus,i have never seen anything about Ferrari's favoritsm before Germany GP.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Whats with you two? Honestly i dont think you watch Formula One or you just dont know how to read that well. First of all he didnt say it wasnt Vettel's fault. He just said that Vettel didnt do it on purpose. And I'm sure if Webber did the same thing Horner would have said the same thing.

And many of you forget the mistake Webber made in Australia when he rear ended hamilton and ruined both their races, this makes me think that you might just have an irrational hatred for Vettel.

First of all,you cant judge people like that.You know neither of us.And,i just say what i see.I am not going to think:'Oh,what would people think if i say my opinion?' I do watch F1 but i miss lots of races since i have been traveling all the summer.My English isnt too good to understand everything said in F1 sites.Maybe i am wrong about favoritsm of RBR,i never say i am 100% true.

What seems to me is that RBR favoritisms Vettel because he is younger,it would be great to make him pleasant(that would be good for them if Vettel becomes champion) and they can make lots of money on him-for example from advertisements.But they are being so cruel to Webber.He isnt treated like a part of the team.I was really disappointed after the thing happened on July 11st-a race which i missed for some reason,i have read comments afterwards-

You know, I don't mind people saying that RBR favour Vettel over Webber, as I think they did a bit. But just a bit. And they kind of stopped from doing it anyway.

But saying that they are cruel to Webber.. I don't know.. it seems a bit too much.
But anyway, it's ok it's your opinion


Also, I think we didn't see more of Ferrari's favouritsm towards Alonso before the German GP simply because Alonso has always been in front of Massa - except in qualy in Bahrain and China before the overtake into the pits.


PS: Sorry to both you and Jensonb if you felt judged, it wasn't my intention to do so. I read again my own post and it didn't sound nice, so I guess I wasn't in a great mood when I wrote it. I'm sorry again!

[Datsun]

The Immortal Dragon
But saying that they are cruel to Webber.. I don't know.. it seems a bit too much.

Let me help you:

Taking the new front wing off someones car to give to their team mate so early in the season is favoritism.

Taking said wing with no warning, just engineers come into your garage and take it; is not just favoritism. its cruel.

Clear now?

[Datsun]

RB want their "Little Schumi"

If Webber is seen to outperform Vettel this season, it will not just look bad for Vettel this season, it will look bad for the rest of his career.

Maybe in 5 years from now, when Vettel has a couple of WDC's under his belt, and people start talking about him in the same breath as Michael; there is always going to be that lingering question in the background. "What about Webber?"

Would Michael have the same reputation in Rubens had pwned him?

[nish2280]

Whats with you two? Honestly i dont think you watch Formula One or you just dont know how to read that well. First of all he didnt say it wasnt Vettel's fault. He just said that Vettel didnt do it on purpose. And I'm sure if Webber did the same thing Horner would have said the same thing.

And many of you forget the mistake Webber made in Australia when he rear ended hamilton and ruined both their races, this makes me think that you might just have an irrational hatred for Vettel.

First of all,you cant judge people like that.You know neither of us.And,i just say what i see.I am not going to think:'Oh,what would people think if i say my opinion?' I do watch F1 but i miss lots of races since i have been traveling all the summer.My English isnt too good to understand everything said in F1 sites.Maybe i am wrong about favoritsm of RBR,i never say i am 100% true.

What seems to me is that RBR favoritisms Vettel because he is younger,it would be great to make him pleasant(that would be good for them if Vettel becomes champion) and they can make lots of money on him-for example from advertisements.But they are being so cruel to Webber.He isnt treated like a part of the team.I was really disappointed after the thing happened on July 11st-a race which i missed for some reason,i have read comments afterwards-

I think people do have an irrational hatred for Vettel, and to be honest it does seem like Jensonb and efinitty are two of those.
RBR do *not* inexplicably favour Sebastian Vettel as you both claim, as I am sure they would have said the exact same words if Webber would have crashed into Button on Sunday. I am certain of that.

Also, claiming that RBR favour Vettel more than Ferrari favour Alonso is astonishing to me. I have no idea how somebody could say that if not because of an irrational hatred for Sebastian Vettel.

My answer to this quote would be similiar to my answer to nish2280's reply.Plus,i have never seen anything about Ferrari's favoritsm before Germany GP.

So according to your reasoning McLaren would favor Hamilton. Its as simple as that. But you would call that favoritism? And why is that? BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN IRRATIONAL HATRED FOR VETTEL.

Heres the facts.
In 2009 Hamilton, at the german gp, was given the upgrade that they brought to the gp. It wasnt like Heikki was out of the championship mathematically and Heikki, i must say, after leaving McLaren did admit that he had not even been asked about the upgrades before they were given to Lewis.

"But they are being so cruel to Heikki, its like he isnt a part of the team" is not something i would have heard you say.

[The Immortal Dragon]

The Immortal Dragon
But saying that they are cruel to Webber.. I don't know.. it seems a bit too much.

Let me help you:

Taking the new front wing off someones car to give to their team mate so early in the season is favoritism.

Taking said wing with no warning, just engineers come into your garage and take it; is not just favoritism. its cruel.

Clear now?

That's what journalists have said, but it doesn't mean it's the truth.
Some have actually reported that Webber didn't like that very wing, which might have helped RBR in their decision.

And anyway, that is not a *cruel* episode. It may be *unfair*, but cruel is another thing.

[Jensonb]

So according to your reasoning McLaren would favor Hamilton. Its as simple as that. But you would call that favoritism? And why is that? BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN IRRATIONAL HATRED FOR VETTEL.

Heres the facts.
In 2009 Hamilton, at the german gp, was given the upgrade that they brought to the gp. It wasnt like Heikki was out of the championship mathematically and Heikki, i must say, after leaving McLaren did admit that he had not even been asked about the upgrades before they were given to Lewis.

"But they are being so cruel to Heikki, its like he isnt a part of the team" is not something i would have heard you say.

Well, to be fair, the two situations are different, because Lewis was given the upgrades as there was only one set at the time, whereas both Webber and Vettel got one of the new front wings but Vettel's broke so instead of having him run with the old one, Horner ordered that Webber's be removed and given to Vettel. The act of physically taking the upgrade away is what makes it cruel. Plus, McLaren were arguably more justified because Heikki never looked anything but ordinary in the sister McLaren, whereas Lewis was a proven winner - in stark contrast, there was very little to choose between Mark and Sebastian.

Clearly McLaren did favour Lewis, but it was technically justified. It would, however, have come across better if they and their fans had not been so defensive about it, but I guess they didn't want to hurt Heikki mentally by explaining "well, he's just not that good". Whereas Red Bull preach equality, but you'd have to be blind not to see their favouritism for Vettel and an idiot not to work out that there was no way he wasn't going to be the favoured son - even though in terms of talent, Webber is worth about 3 or 4 Vettels most of the time.

[nish2280]

So according to your reasoning McLaren would favor Hamilton. Its as simple as that. But you would call that favoritism? And why is that? BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN IRRATIONAL HATRED FOR VETTEL.

Heres the facts.
In 2009 Hamilton, at the german gp, was given the upgrade that they brought to the gp. It wasnt like Heikki was out of the championship mathematically and Heikki, i must say, after leaving McLaren did admit that he had not even been asked about the upgrades before they were given to Lewis.

"But they are being so cruel to Heikki, its like he isnt a part of the team" is not something i would have heard you say.

Well, to be fair, the two situations are different, because Lewis was given the upgrades as there was only one set at the time, whereas both Webber and Vettel got one of the new front wings but Vettel's broke so instead of having him run with the old one, Horner ordered that Webber's be removed and given to Vettel. The act of physically taking the upgrade away is what makes it cruel. Plus, McLaren were arguably more justified because Heikki never looked anything but ordinary in the sister McLaren, whereas Lewis was a proven winner - in stark contrast, there was very little to choose between Mark and Sebastian.

Clearly McLaren did favour Lewis, but it was technically justified. It would, however, have come across better if they and their fans had not been so defensive about it, but I guess they didn't want to hurt Heikki mentally by explaining "well, he's just not that good". Whereas Red Bull preach equality, but you'd have to be blind not to see their favouritism for Vettel and an idiot not to work out that there was no way he wasn't going to be the favoured son - even though in terms of talent, Webber is worth about 3 or 4 Vettels most of the time.

Well first of all Adrian Newey made the call for the wings to be changed. Second of all Heikki is also a proven winner, it may not be of a WDC but he is a proven winner. When they took the wing off Webber it was to put it on a car of someone who they thought would do a better job with it. Red Bull do preach equality, and it was clearly seen when Vettel was trying to overtake Webber! Did we hear Webber being told to ease of and let Vettel go past as we see with Ferrari? Yes after the incident, in a teams point of view, if Webber didnt make it hard (but legal) for Vettel to get past they would have had a whole lot of points in the bag which is clearly why Christian first blamed Webber, but the main point is that he took back the comment and said it was a 50/50 situation, which it was.

And please, as i have just said, favoritism is not a point that a McLaren fan can argue on as it is evident in McLaren itself.

[f1ea]

So according to your reasoning McLaren would favor Hamilton. Its as simple as that. But you would call that favoritism? And why is that? BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN IRRATIONAL HATRED FOR VETTEL.

Heres the facts.
In 2009 Hamilton, at the german gp, was given the upgrade that they brought to the gp. It wasnt like Heikki was out of the championship mathematically and Heikki, i must say, after leaving McLaren did admit that he had not even been asked about the upgrades before they were given to Lewis.

"But they are being so cruel to Heikki, its like he isnt a part of the team" is not something i would have heard you say.

Well, to be fair, the two situations are different, because Lewis was given the upgrades as there was only one set at the time, whereas both Webber and Vettel got one of the new front wings but Vettel's broke so instead of having him run with the old one, Horner ordered that Webber's be removed and given to Vettel. The act of physically taking the upgrade away is what makes it cruel. Plus, McLaren were arguably more justified because Heikki never looked anything but ordinary in the sister McLaren, whereas Lewis was a proven winner - in stark contrast, there was very little to choose between Mark and Sebastian.

Clearly McLaren did favour Lewis, but it was technically justified. It would, however, have come across better if they and their fans had not been so defensive about it, but I guess they didn't want to hurt Heikki mentally by explaining "well, he's just not that good". Whereas Red Bull preach equality, but you'd have to be blind not to see their favouritism for Vettel and an idiot not to work out that there was no way he wasn't going to be the favoured son - even though in terms of talent, Webber is worth about 3 or 4 Vettels most of the time.

Well first of all Adrian Newey made the call for the wings to be changed. Second of all Heikki is also a proven winner, it may not be of a WDC but he is a proven winner. When they took the wing off Webber it was to put it on a car of someone who they thought would do a better job with it. Red Bull do preach equality, and it was clearly seen when Vettel was trying to overtake Webber! Did we hear Webber being told to ease of and let Vettel go past as we see with Ferrari? Yes after the incident, in a teams point of view, if Webber didnt make it hard (but legal) for Vettel to get past they would have had a whole lot of points in the bag which is clearly why Christian first blamed Webber, but the main point is that he took back the comment and said it was a 50/50 situation, which it was.

And please, as i have just said, favoritism is not a point that a McLaren fan can argue on as it is evident in McLaren itself.

So, some things are "technically justified".... others arent...

The fact is, the non-Mclaren/Lewis fans that saw this happening could have cared less about lewis getting the support, because a) its obvious he was in the better possition for Mclaren interests, b) because what Mclaren does with their parts is their problem, c) because F1 is a team sport and d) because if Lewis beat whoever and got the championship, he deserved it whether he got extra support or not. So the issue went and goes unnoticed. That doesnt mean its not happening, only that most people dont really care about it.

So, Vettel sucks because he's Red Bull's "protege"... for some reason its the same allignment of Mclaren and Lewis' fans saying this.
How come its ok for Lewis to be Mclaren's AND Ron Dennis' protege???

[bud]

Name the race where Lewis got given Heikki's part again? talk about

[f1ea]

Name the race where Lewis got given Heikki's part again? talk about

They might as well could have been. Thing is, Red Bull had only one part. It was Red Bull's part. Not Webber's. Webber doesnt build parts, he had only tried one in testing. All drivers go thorugh different parts in testing and that doesnt mean they'll use that in the race.

To be honest, i dont think what RB did was good, from the management point of view. But from the sporting and competition pt of view they did what they had to do. Whether Webber or Vettel like it or not. But just because i dont think it was "good" doesnt mean i am going to condemn it.

[bud]

No Redbull had two parts, Vettel broke his so Redbull took Marks.

[f1ea]

No Redbull had two parts, Vettel broke his so Redbull took Marks.

But what i'm saying is, it wasn't Mark's. He wasnt racing yet. It was during practice, and during practice, parts arent "any driver's" they are just there. What if vettel's wing failed because the team were testing they didnt test with Mark's? what if after Vettel broke his, the problem was fixed? it's the team's parts until they ride out for Q3. And the teams will allocate it as they see fit.

Just so you know, Red Bull favored Vettel there, of course! but that doesnt mean Webber does not get support or wouldnt get the support if needed.