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#212868
Vettel shouldnt have really moved in the braking zone which is what caused the collision, and the by the rule book Vettel getting a drive through was correct.

1) that rule is mostly about who is in front, not who is behind. Vettel changed his line once anyway, which is allowed.
2) if he didn't move he would have hit Button from behind, quite simply.

Actually the rules only allow you to make one choice in line to a corner, They sure as hell don't allow you to move in the braking zone which is what he did.
We have seen drive throughs for this before.
#212869
Raindrops on Vettel's camera showed it was raining as the incident happened. After the crash but before he ran off the tarmac, you can see the sheen of water on Vettel's tyres so it wasn't just damp, it was wet (at least in spots) off the racing line.

Here's what I saw happening watching in slo-mo:
Button braked for the corner and Vettel tried to check up. He never got unduly close to Button but he was close enough to upset his downforce. For a second or two before all hell broke loose, Vettel's car already was sliding a bit; his steering inputs weren't always producing a corresponding directional change. I wonder if maybe he was expecting flexi-wing downforce? From the instant it broke loose, Vettel was just a passenger.

Vettel did not steer left, it broke loose at the front and yawed left. He corrected right and the yaw reversed to the right. That the yaw reversed (and the car began to spin right) probably had more to do with the dynamics of a mid-engined car and his suddenly getting out of the throttle as from his steering input. While this was happening, Button was under braking but Vettel was not so Sebastien partially overtook Jenson. Almost instantly after the spin reversed, Vettel put in full opposite (left) lock but the car continued spinning right until he'd speared Button.

More drivers have spun or slid off the circuit this weekend than haven't and I think the drive-thru was more the result of Vettel having turned in to his own teammate at Turkey than his mistake today. I think the stewards saw it as a pattern and jumped to a conclusion rather than fully investigating because I'm fair certain if they'd just examined Vettel's in-car view, they'd have labeled it a simple racing incident. Vettel definitely did not steer into Button, deliberately or otherwise.


if you cannot see it as an avoidable incident then what race where you watching. it was nothing to do with turkey all today did was affirm that vettel is far to aggressive and needs a much wiser head on those shoulders if he is to be taken as seriously as everyone wants to. the penalty was more than justified it was very clearly an avoidable incident and was lucky not to get a stop and go or more damage to his car.

and yes vettel did steer left to overtake it then hit the bumps at the edge of the breaking zone causing him to gain air and less grip he then over corrects bangs it straight into jensons car, he wasnt a passenger he could have simply gone wide when he hit the first bump.

Jenson Button has just said that it was bone dry at the corner of the incident with Vettel.


Except for all the raindrops on the camera. Quite obvious it was wet

they flying around the circuit very fast with it spitting ofc there is gona be spots on the camera lol, you cannot say he lost it because of the rain when plenty of others went around only minutes before overtaking / breaking off the racing line .

its a poor move, end of story.
#212872
Vettel shouldnt have really moved in the braking zone which is what caused the collision, and the by the rule book Vettel getting a drive through was correct.

1) that rule is mostly about who is in front, not who is behind. Vettel changed his line once anyway, which is allowed.
2) if he didn't move he would have hit Button from behind, quite simply.

Actually the rules only allow you to make one choice in line to a corner, They sure as hell don't allow you to move in the braking zone which is what he did.
We have seen drive throughs for this before.

What Vettel did in changing direction is done by many drivers in all the races.
Usually when they overtake they move away from the slipstream as late as they can, which is often just before the braking point.
This is what Vettel did and this what everybody who overtook/tried to overtake at the Bus Stop Chicane did.
Last edited by The Immortal Dragon on 29 Aug 10, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
#212873
Raindrops on Vettel's camera showed it was raining as the incident happened. After the crash but before he ran off the tarmac, you can see the sheen of water on Vettel's tyres so it wasn't just damp, it was wet (at least in spots) off the racing line.

Here's what I saw happening watching in slo-mo:
Button braked for the corner and Vettel tried to check up. He never got unduly close to Button but he was close enough to upset his downforce. For a second or two before all hell broke loose, Vettel's car already was sliding a bit; his steering inputs weren't always producing a corresponding directional change. I wonder if maybe he was expecting flexi-wing downforce? From the instant it broke loose, Vettel was just a passenger.

Vettel did not steer left, it broke loose at the front and yawed left. He corrected right and the yaw reversed to the right. That the yaw reversed (and the car began to spin right) probably had more to do with the dynamics of a mid-engined car and his suddenly getting out of the throttle as from his steering input. While this was happening, Button was under braking but Vettel was not so Sebastien partially overtook Jenson. Almost instantly after the spin reversed, Vettel put in full opposite (left) lock but the car continued spinning right until he'd speared Button.

More drivers have spun or slid off the circuit this weekend than haven't and I think the drive-thru was more the result of Vettel having turned in to his own teammate at Turkey than his mistake today. I think the stewards saw it as a pattern and jumped to a conclusion rather than fully investigating because I'm fair certain if they'd just examined Vettel's in-car view, they'd have labeled it a simple racing incident. Vettel definitely did not steer into Button, deliberately or otherwise.


At no point during that "attempt" was he in control. I think the punishment was more for the fact that he should not have attempted something he was not in control of, hence the avoidable contact. You're probably right, if you set a precedence of not being able to pass a competitive car, they're going to be looking at you. I don't think the same thing would have happened to a couple of other drivers on the grid, and the majority of drivers would not have even made the attempt.

Vettle's albatross is being impatient.
#212874
Why are you aguing with me? I didn't make the rules! :rofl: go complain to the FIA if you're unhappy with the rulebook. :P

And to add about your slipstream comment pulling out to overtake is one line! Vettel went inside then outside which is a no no, to make it worse he moved in the braking zone!
Last edited by bud on 29 Aug 10, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.
#212876
What a great race, Spa never fails to entertain. Although massively disappointing for some, most notably Jenson Button and Barrichello, I was very pleased to see Hamilton take the win. He drove a great race and still managed to rattle my nerves on occasion, especially when he sraped that wall after going into the gravel. I was hoping Webber would be a few more places back after his shocking start but Vettel's mistake took two contenders out and Kubica's mistake in the pits certainly didn't help McLaren's cause.

Big thumbs up for Sutil, he hung in there nicely. I particularly liked his super fast lap before overtaking Schumacher! Big thumbs down for Vettel who continues to make silly mistakes, usually to the detriment of another drivers race. Poor Button.
#212881
Why are you aguing with me? I didn't make the rules! :rofl: go complain to the FIA if you're unhappy with the rulebook. :P

I am not unhappy with the rulebook, I am saying that's not what the rulebook says.

See my add on, it's common knowledge you're only allowed on move in an overtake attempt, dunno why you're even arguing that fact!
#212882
Why are you aguing with me? I didn't make the rules! :rofl: go complain to the FIA if you're unhappy with the rulebook. :P

I am not unhappy with the rulebook, I am saying that's not what the rulebook says.

See my add on, it's common knowledge you're only allowed on move in an overtake attempt, dunno why you're even arguing that fact!

Yeah I'm sorry, that's not what I meant.

I know that's what the rule says, but I meant to say that Vettel didn't do that. He didn't move under braking but before, so that rule just isn't applicable to his manoeuvre which was normal up to then.
#212885

Seriously, McLaren fans are getting way out of hand. Any driver who is involved in any way with a McLaren driver is evil incarnate. Any fan not agreeing is clearly a McLaren hater and loves the team they are talking about. McLaren does nothing wrong. It's gotten about a thousand times worse then any claims about Ferrari fans.


You have just spent four pages posting unnecessarily confrontational and personal posts that are deliberately designed to provoke an argument and have the audacity to say that it is the Mclaren fans who are way out of hand?!?

Oh, the irony.

You all need to calm down a few notches unless you want to attract the attention of the mods and end up sinbinned.


And you have posted four times since the race began one of which is this post, not discussing the topic, playing the role of mod and attacking me. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before you post.
#212886
Button says the track was dry, I think he would know better than a certain poster on here who seems to think Vettel didnt make a mistake. The rain on the camera was probably from earlier on in the lap or race.
If you watched the BBC Forum you will have seen Niki Lauda condemning Vettel for his mistake. Is said poster now going to say he knows better than a 3 times world champion?


What is it with this forum and all the people who either choose not to read what someone actually wrote or are simply unable to comprehend what was actually written.

Is illiteracy and/or ignorance really that big of an issue in F1 fans?
#212890
Button says he may have confused Vettel by closing the gap on the inside. Vettel apologised for ruining Button's race. A racing incident. Can we not leave it at that? :)
#212891
See my add on, it's common knowledge you're only allowed on move in an overtake attempt, dunno why you're even arguing that fact!

No, that's one blocking move on the part of the overtaken. The overtaker may move as much as he pleases. There is NO RULE defining a braking zone or requiring drivers to change their behaviour when in said nonexistent zone.
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