FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[smokin]

Where does the information on a revised test of 20mm/100kg come from?

[darwin dali]

Where does the information on a revised test of 20mm/100kg come from?

From here, e.g.

[smokin]

Merci.

[darwin dali]

De rien, mon cher, de rien.

[Robert12010]

i seen a clip on the bbc formula1 gossip page, and there is a link on there that takes you to james allen's f1, and its quoted on there that the red bull wing will pass despite the new stringent load tests, to be honest i didnt think that the wing was illegal and it would be a sour way for Mclaren to win the drivers or constructors ( thats what i would love to happen ) if the wing was decided to be illgeal, i would much prefer to see the mclarens winning on the race track rather than a test

[What's Burning?]

You can't retroactively go back and make something illegal. The wings that have been run to date were all deemed legal. The only change here will be the new test. I'm sure every wing run in Spa will be tested under the new test methodology and it will either be declared legal, or not, whether it manages to flex at speed during the race or not.

The only way to keep the wings from breaking the spirit of the rule is not via a static test, but by a rule that says the end plates must remain at a certain distance from the ground at all times, and the only way to actually enforce it is by making the teams build in some sort of bump stop at the wing's end plate assuring it will remain at least that distance from the ground similar to what they do with the under carriage skids today.

[smokin]

You can't retroactively go back and make something illegal. The wings that have been run to date were all deemed legal. The only change here will be the new test. I'm sure every wing run in Spa will be tested under the new test methodology and it will either be declared legal, or not, whether it manages to flex at speed during the race or not.

The only way to keep the wings from breaking the spirit of the rule is not via a static test, but by a rule that says the end plates must remain at a certain distance from the ground at all times, and the only way to actually enforce it is by making the teams build in some sort of bump stop at the wing's end plate assuring it will remain at least that distance from the ground similar to what they do with the under carriage skids today.

It's already in the rules. Article 3.15:

"Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances."

(Yes, I know; get a life. But you've got to do something when you live in the wilds of Canada and we're on a 4 week hiatus, even if it's reading the FIA rules!)

[f1ea]

It's already in the rules. Article 3.15:

"Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances."

(Yes, I know; get a life. But you've got to do something when you live in the wilds of Canada and we're on a 4 week hiatus, even if it's reading the FIA rules!)

Doesn't matter. It was already cleared for each of those races. The FIA can't retroactively make it illegal. Unless they discover some sort of clandestine cheat, like the hidden fuel tank in the BAR of a few yrs back... if its a working around the rules thing... no problem. They can ban it for future races, but not back-legislate on it.

So... sorry to bust your chops: Mclaren will not be getting many pts from Red Bull's nose issue

[billindenver]

You can't retroactively go back and make something illegal. The wings that have been run to date were all deemed legal. The only change here will be the new test. I'm sure every wing run in Spa will be tested under the new test methodology and it will either be declared legal, or not, whether it manages to flex at speed during the race or not.

The only way to keep the wings from breaking the spirit of the rule is not via a static test, but by a rule that says the end plates must remain at a certain distance from the ground at all times, and the only way to actually enforce it is by making the teams build in some sort of bump stop at the wing's end plate assuring it will remain at least that distance from the ground similar to what they do with the under carriage skids today.

It's already in the rules. Article 3.15:

"Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances."

(Yes, I know; get a life. But you've got to do something when you live in the wilds of Canada and we're on a 4 week hiatus, even if it's reading the FIA rules!)

Every wing on the grid touches the ground/curbs etc occasionally. Bridging the gap is from a static position. The FIA has not deemed it illegal, for instance, for the teams to allow body roll in their cars...dipping one side closer to the ground. Nor have they deemed it illegal to drop tire pressures and allow more tire flex...dipping the outside wing closer to the ground in bumpy corners. The tests are done static and on the wing only...independent of suspension roll etc and are testing the wing flex only....not where the suspension, tire pressure etc allow that wing to be during all possible bumps, corner loads etc. That would be impossible to test.

This is a case of McLaren wasting time and energy focusing far to long on an issue that is not the cause of their problem. Red Bull are the masters at staying just silent enough to appear worried....so that McLaren presses forward with a witch hunt that is fruitless.

[f1ea]

Example: the blown diffuser.
EVERYBODY was going crazy with their suspension hehe wasted like 5 races wondering about the suspension, while the magic was happening under the car.

[darwin dali]

i seen a clip on the bbc formula1 gossip page, and there is a link on there that takes you to james allen's f1, and its quoted on there that the red bull wing will pass despite the new stringent load tests, to be honest i didnt think that the wing was illegal and it would be a sour way for Mclaren to win the drivers or constructors ( thats what i would love to happen ) if the wing was decided to be illgeal, i would much prefer to see the mclarens winning on the race track rather than a test

See my post above:
From here, e.g.
Do you actually read the threads in which you post?

[Robert12010]

i am a hardcore mclaren fan and have the confidence that they will find a performance improvement, plus with long straights at spa and monza, they should have a decent chance of doing well, and definatly if spa is wet

Dont want to take the confidence off you... but I wouldnt be so sure. The F duct is neutralised (according to Mclaren).

I am certain the rest of the season depends on Mclaren and Ferrari getting their diffusers working, and whatever decision there is about the front wings. Unfortunately for Mclaren, the final decision comes after the break, so they wont be able to get much done in these couple of weeks... while Red Bull and Ferrari have the same weeks to figure how to beat the new test.

im still confident they'll do better, but not quite sure of course until we get there! and i agree with the idea that the diffuser is going to play a vital role in the remainder of the season, but so will the drivers, team and car reliability!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

2.4 of the TR say a team may inquire to the FIA for clarification if they are introducing a new component or technology. It is not required but RBR do not gamble with such matters.

2.5 of the TR say that any new component -- including those deemed legal -- will be reviewed at the end of the season introduced and if found to add "no value to Formula One in general," it will be specifically prohibited.

For 2011, the TR could be amended to require a skid block beneath the end plates, just as the current TR require under the tub of the chassis, which must meet a minimum thickness requirement after the race. If they want an immediate effect, they could put a pressure switch on the lower end of a boss extending, say, 35mm below the front wing end plates. If at any time during the race either switch is closed for more than some brief period time deemed adequate for the overrunning of a curb, the driver is given a stop-and-go penalty.

[stonemonkey]

2.4 of the TR say a team may inquire to the FIA for clarification if they are introducing a new component or technology. It is not required but RBR do not gamble with such matters.

2.5 of the TR say that any new component -- including those deemed legal -- will be reviewed at the end of the season introduced and if found to add "no value to Formula One in general," it will be specifically prohibited.

For 2011, the TR could be amended to require a skid block beneath the end plates, just as the current TR require under the tub of the chassis, which must meet a minimum thickness requirement after the race. If they want an immediate effect, they could put a pressure switch on the lower end of a boss extending, say, 35mm below the front wing end plates. If at any time during the race either switch is closed for more than some brief period time deemed adequate for the overrunning of a curb, the driver is given a stop-and-go penalty.

Wouldn't adding skidblocks to the endplates defeat the purpose as it's not so much the flexing of the airfoil itself but the gap between the endplate and the ground that's increasing performance, they used to have skidblocks on the wing endplates specifically to increase performance.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

2.4 of the TR say a team may inquire to the FIA for clarification if they are introducing a new component or technology. It is not required but RBR do not gamble with such matters.

2.5 of the TR say that any new component -- including those deemed legal -- will be reviewed at the end of the season introduced and if found to add "no value to Formula One in general," it will be specifically prohibited.

For 2011, the TR could be amended to require a skid block beneath the end plates, just as the current TR require under the tub of the chassis, which must meet a minimum thickness requirement after the race. If they want an immediate effect, they could put a pressure switch on the lower end of a boss extending, say, 35mm below the front wing end plates. If at any time during the race either switch is closed for more than some brief period time deemed adequate for the overrunning of a curb, the driver is given a stop-and-go penalty.

Wouldn't adding skidblocks to the endplates defeat the purpose as it's not so much the flexing of the airfoil itself but the gap between the endplate and the ground that's increasing performance, they used to have skidblocks on the wing endplates specifically to increase performance.

I should also have proposed putting the skid block beneath its own 35mm boss.