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[Peng]

But Alonso dropped three seconds back and then reeled him in in what, 3 laps? That showed the team his pace and the team didn't have a choice but to put the fast guy in front. Massa couldn't even hold on to his draft. Alonso left him for dead....after following in his dirty air and scrubbing his tires for so long.

Alonso didn't exactly leave him for dead considering they had 18 laps remaining when the pass happened and the race ended with Alonso only 4 seconds ahead and that was with him clearly pushing to try to get fastest laps to prove he was faster, he was faster but only by 1 tenth when you compare their fastest laps so i don't really see this pace you claim Alonso had over Massa.

He was and is faster though i would agree but every other driver uses that pace advantage to overtake would you rather drivers be discouraged to overtake incase a red bull type accident were to happen?

@peng - I believe team orders should exist because of the constructor's championship. To me it does not make sense for teams to compete against one another. Yet, teammates are not able to work together to beat other teams. Tell me another sport where teammates are not allowed to work together as a team in order to win as a group. Now, I know this argument is one sided there is of course the WDC to consider as well. I won't get into that now but will tell you that. I would have rather seen Alonso take the fight to Massa. Atleast, a mclaren fight not a red bull fight.

I am not stupid i know team orders happen in every race and will always happen but not to the extreme of changing the outcome of the race which is and should be an illegal offense that should be dealt with harshly and if you disagree than i don't know why you even watch F1.

BillinDenver... you nailed it 100%. Saved me a lot of typing. And to those who say "but it's illegal!" I say it's a fact of life, every team does it, just not as ungracefully as Ferrari. Live with it. You feel deprived of honest racing action? A simple order to "don't take out you team mate" is a team order. Wisely backing off is no less of a withholding of true racing excitement.

And yes I'm an Alonso fan. I've loved him ever since he dethroned the god that was Michael Schumacher... twice. No other driver currently (or recently) in the business could do that.

The order "don't take out you team mate" is indeed a team order but hasn't exactly stopped drivers from the same team still having a go at an overtake, the same as fuel saving mode orders which have happened all season and this has been proven best by the Hamilton/Button fight in Turkey.

They haven't exactly forcefully changed the outcome of the race those with the capability of overtaking will and have tried to overtake even during these team orders if given a chance, what ferrari did was blatent race fixing and no team order should be allowed that can alter the outcome of a race the way it did in Germany its just plain cheating.

I just wonder how many of those defending the decision are Ferrari/Alonso fans? if this was Mclaren+Hamilton/Button making this type of choice i would be saying the exact same thing and i am a Mclaren fan, i just don't get how you can defend such an action which will clearly ruin the sport if it is not dealt with harshly, the rule was introduced because the fans hated it back in 2002 i doubt they will like the idea of team orders that affect the outcome of the race now.

[Ineluke]

If this goes before the World Motorsport Council will Jean Todt be the one issuing Ferrari with any further type of penalty, such as disqualification from the race? I would find that extremely interesting seeing as how he was in charge of Ferrari in Austria 2002, the race that created the 'banning team orders' rule.

On a personal note, I'm not sure if Massa was slowing down 2 laps prior to letting Alonso pass, but I think Alonso would have passed him anyway if he just had of kept on pushing as he was. Alonso looked much quicker and as soon as he caught back up to Massa, he was let past. Perhaps Felipe knew he was going to struggle and let him pass in a deliberate fashion in order to save his own reputation of outright pace. Having said that, catching is one thing and passing (particularly with todays terrible cars, or tracks - whichever you prefer to blame) is completely another thing. But I don't understand these drivers who supposedly play the team game and then go and whinge about it and look all sullen because the race was taken off them. If you don't like it then go on and win the bloody race. As Senna said, if you're no longer competing to win then you're no longer a racing driver because you're not in Formula One to come second, third or fourth. I'm more disappointed in Massa because clearly he has resigned himself to being a number two driver. Get some mongrel about you Felipe!!!

If he had the pace, he would be a number one driver. But he never has had it, no matter who his team mate has been...and at this point, I can't see that he ever will. He is a solid, dependable driver who puts in pretty decent drives with the occasional better than F1 average drives. He and Barrichello...birds of a feather. I like them both and get very excited when they do well...but they are not equal to the Alonso's etc in the pit lane. You don't build a championship team around either of them....it's just fact. The radio calls to Massa for 15 minutes prior to the pass were for him to get a gap and keep it. The team was clearly trying to get him to pick up his pace so that Vettel didn't climb onto Alonso's rear wing...but Massa simply didn't have the pace. He seldom does. I feel for the guy, and wish he could legitimately hold his team mate off...but he can't. He needs to find some pace.

really! So what does that make jenson because massa is a better driver than button.
Massa was hitting traffic and the dirty little cheater alonso was moaning into his radio long before the illegal order was given.
Alonso is a filthy stinking little thief,you know it but you can handle it.
Just to think your dumb hero is nothing but a cheat and nearly all of the f1 world thinks the same thing.

Feels good to follow your cheating little rat,hey billy,lol.

[pilotfriend]

Alonso HAD to be one of those children who always had temper tantrums in supermarkets. Sadly, he has not progressed from those times. An unpleasant petulant person who would best be employed as a parking warden.

[Hammer278]

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) Fernando, what have you got to say to the people who would call this a dirty win and if you win the championship, a dirty champion?

FA: I have 19 races to… look at the overall races, there are a lot of points that we win sometimes and a lot of points that we lose sometimes. As I said, today was a good day, some other races were bad days for us, disappointing but as I said before, we need to remain focused, keep working, keep developing the car, not to be too excited when we win, not to be too down when we lose. In November, (we need to) try to be in the fight for the championship, not forgetting that Red Bull has so far been very dominant, not scoring many points on Sunday, or the points that they should have scored on Sunday, but remain very strong and McLaren as well, leading both championships, so there is still a long way to go for us.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) The reality is, though, that you couldn’t beat him on the track, so you had to get the team to do it for you.

FA: If that’s your opinion.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) I’m asking you, is that not your opinion?

FA: No.

Q. (Byron Young – The Daily Mirror) He had to give you this win, didn’t he, Fernando?

FA: No.


nah there is no dealing or reasoning with thick headed clowns like this.

[MAD MAX]

Do you remember this stunt he pulled on Lewis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJCGInsVUs&feature=related

[PartsaS]

what can we say for a driver wth such an attitude! he lost many of his fans becouse of his behaviour the last 3 years.
as for those defending alonso after all these, I am sure they all have the same character as he does and whatever he or ferrari does no matter how wrong it is they will still support his actions. so don't waste your time trying to put some sense to fanatics.

[vaptin]

All the top drivers are petulant and whiny when things don't go their way, Lewis in Australia this year, Jenson in the second half of the season last year - particularly when he got taken out, Spa I think), Rubens "blah blah blah", "its happening to much on my side of the garage", "the team made me lose the race". I'm sure Schumacher's done it plenty of times

The top drivers are all blindly arrogant, the believe they're the best, and they want to win. And they'll do almost anything to ensure that.

[bud]

Lauda on Alonso denying he didnt know team orders were used

"I've never heard a driver talk such bull****," Lauda told the Daily Mail. "He has no character.

"This was the most stupid thing I have ever seen from Ferrari.

"Why did they do it? They did not need to because the Championship is alive for another eight races.

"Why could Massa not have a chance to win, a year since he had the accident that could have cost his life?'

[Gaz]

Here we go again. The same old whiners singing the same old tired song. They didn't have a problem when McLaren harped on about saving fuel...which was openly acknowledged in the press as being team orders for Button to not attempt another pass on Hammy. If you don't want it to be a team sport, then race one car per team. Otherwise, this is the reality of racing. All racing. The team is the important thing, as Massa said in the interview afterwards.

Mclaren allowed its drivers to race then after the racing was over the drivers were told to save fuel, now assuming that this was team orders they were being told to hold position.

Being told to Hold Postion is a very diffrent situation to Lewis being told to move over for Jenson.

But several times during the race this season we've heard Mclaren mention fuel saving (this race is one example) so it proberly was a geniune need to save fuel.

When Red Bull let their two drivers 'work it out' on the track, they quite possibly cost themselves a championship. Two team mates, in fairly equal cars with one of them being faster but not overwhelmingly so....trying to fight it out on track is stupid. That's right....it's blatantly, amateurish and stupid. You don't bang up your own team cars trying to force a pass when it is clear which car is faster. All Massa had to do was match Alonso's pace and the team wouldn't have asked him to move over. But Alonso dropped three seconds back and then reeled him in in what, 3 laps? That showed the team his pace and the team didn't have a choice but to put the fast guy in front. Massa couldn't even hold on to his draft. Alonso left him for dead....after following in his dirty air and scrubbing his tires for so long. Massa didn't have an answer for Alonso today...which is a shame...I would have loved to see Massa on the top step. Vettel was all over Massa shortly thereafter...should Alonso have slowed up even further to hold Vettel off of Massa?

I agree in Turkey Red bull came away with egg on their face, however during the same race Mclaren showed them how it should be done.

Both Button and Lewis exchanged positions twice and remained on the track.

Its called Racing its exciting as a result of overtakes that have alot of meaning on them from a championship point of view.

The fastest guy won the race. Isn't that what racing is supposed to be? Everyone condemned Vettel and Red Bull for being such idiots and they still talk about how the team isn't 'old and wise' enough to have properly handled Vettel wanting by Webber. Well folks, you saw today how 'old and wise' handle that situation. The faster car takes the lead and leaves the slower car to deal with the hounds nipping at his heels. That is how F1 has been since before most of these complainers were born. It's a team sport. You don't chance ruining millions in sponsorship, points and certainly car parts by going wheel to wheel with you team mate. That would be just stupid. McLaren reeled their boys in when they did it...and they took 1st and 2nd. Red Bull did not...and they lost BOTH the driving and constructors championship lead when the two drivers collided.

If the fastest guy won the race why not just do away with the race and just have qualifying.

Massa was keeping Alonso behind him and Alonso got the team to have him move over.

Who cares about Sponsorship and Money its about the race, the fans and the passion of the sport they need to stop it.

Its bad yeh that Red Bull did that but how good was it from a fans point of view, especily from a Mclaren fans seat belive me!

I can't blame Ferrari for avoiding that situation. Massa is desperate to prove something about himself that isn't true. He has NEVER been the equal of his teammate...no matter who that teammate is, yet he is desperate to prove that he is. You don't let two team mates battle it out when one of them is that desperate. That would be....well....Red Bull.

He was ahead of Alonso and Alonso couldn't overtake him it was Massa's win He's a coward.

[darwin dali]

All the top drivers are petulant and whiny when things don't go their way, Lewis in Australia this year, Jenson in the second half of the season last year - particularly when he got taken out, Spa I think), Rubens "blah blah blah", "its happening to much on my side of the garage", "the team made me lose the race". I'm sure Schumacher's done it plenty of times

The top drivers are all blindly arrogant, the believe they're the best, and they want to win. And they'll do almost anything to ensure that.

Nope, MS didn't do that - one reason why I like him. He virtually never put the blame on the team or team mates or the tires or if he did, it wasn't in a whining way, but rather in a matter-of-factly way and ending it with ...but that's racing, or we have to work on this or whatever. Sometimes you could guess from his expression that he'd have a word or two with his team afterwards, but not in public.

[What's Burning?]

All the top drivers are petulant and whiny when things don't go their way, Lewis in Australia this year, Jenson in the second half of the season last year - particularly when he got taken out, Spa I think), Rubens "blah blah blah", "its happening to much on my side of the garage", "the team made me lose the race". I'm sure Schumacher's done it plenty of times

The top drivers are all blindly arrogant, the believe they're the best, and they want to win. And they'll do almost anything to ensure that.

Nope, MS didn't do that - one reason why I like him. He virtually never put the blame on the team or team mates or the tires or if he did, it wasn't in a whining way, but rather in a matter-of-factly way and ending it with ...but that's racing, or we have to work on this or whatever. Sometimes you could guess from his expression that he'd have a word or two with his team afterwards, but not in public.

Dude, we live in a "facebooktwitter" world. Privacy does not exist.

[Hammer278]

For the "racing fans" defending Ferrari and their new 'spawn'....so from now when we have a Ferrari 1-2 in front, do we just consider race over and switch off the TV? Is that cool with everyone? Since we know who's going to win...if there's 3 laps remaining or even 30 laps. Huh?

[texasmr2]

What happened today was Ferrari's decision, not Alonso's, so put the blame on the team leader.

Regardless of where you think the blame should lie it was a totall disgrace.

[MAD MAX]

What happened today was Ferrari's decision, not Alonso's, so put the blame on the team leader.

Regardless of where you think the blame should lie it was a totall disgrace.

Absolutely spot on, the ferrari-fanboys cannot accept the truth. Its been the main sport scandal story in the UK for the last day

[What's Burning?]

I wish I could be here today congratulating Ferrari and their fans on a great race.

What happened yesterday was the fans (Ferrari and otherwise) missing out on a great moment of racing... Seeing Alonso force Massa into a mistake or out brake him into a turn and take the lead by earning it and doing it all without needless contact. not take the lead simply because the telemetry indicated he was faster. That potentially great moment in racing was replaced by a cautious, calculated moment of team orders.