FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

I don't know how the following will be viewed by the WMSC, mitigating or incriminating:
Smedley told FM earlier that he had to bring the gap to FA up to 3 seconds, so he needed to push with the implication it seems if he wasn't able to do that he would get told that FA was the faster driver. FM wasn't able to do so and hence, the radio message was sent that started the whole schlamassel.
FM as the good Ferrari soldier would say: I was informed that FA was the faster driver. In order to avoid a Red Bull outcome, *I* thought it better to let him by to secure a double podium for the team.
How the stewards or the WMSC could 'prove' that it was team orders and not FM's insight based on the info he was given, I'd really like to see. As long as FM sticks to that line, I can't see any further sanctions handed out to Ferrari.

FM has the power to at least clear Ferrari of it. Clear them of the implications, not the stink.

The argument though is... if Alonso was indeed the faster of the two drivers and Ferraris was worried about Vettle making a charge of it, wouldn't it make sense for them to keep Alonso behind, since he'd be much better able defend against Vettle than Massa? Ferrari would then be getting a 1-3 instead of a 1-2.

They'll get off by the rules if Massa plays the good Ferrari team member. He's got them say... by the 5 million dollar bonus for being a good team member balls.

On the other hand, you could make an argument that with SV's record of crashes while passing, it would be beneficial to get the faster FA out of SV's line of fire, thus, have FM as the road block.

[Big Azza]

There is a difference between these team orders and what happened in Turkey to Red Bull.

For Red Bull - it was for the good of the WCC. Webber was clearly slower, Vettel clearly faster. It had nothing to do with the WDC.

On the other hand, Ferrari decided to sacrifice Massa's chances of a WDC title, however slim they may be, for the sake of Alonso's WDC. Why would they care? Ferrari should be concerned about winning the WCC. For the sake of the WCC, Massa in front was clearly better, because he was faster.

Although Massa did at some point need to conserve some fuel. I know Alonso did this, and that's why he dropped back 3 secs. A few more fast laps and Massa could do the same.

But why Ferrari are involving themselves in a championship that isn't there's beats me. What if Vettel did overtake Massa in the end? How would Ferrari feel about losing some valuable points for their WCC just because they wanted Alonso to win a different championship?

To teach the team a valuable lesson on team orders, both drivers should be given penalties. If Massa and Alonso lie to the stewards, disqualify them from the race completely, and then Vettel will win!

[Big Azza]

Oh... I hate Alonso again!

[Hammer278]

Oh... I hate Alonso again!

Why don't you be consistent like me...since 2005!

[PartsaS]

I am a big fan of f1 since 1994, ferrari has always been the mafia of f1. not even a single year has past with ferrari not manipulating the sport rules and punishments for other teams with fia obeying every ''suggestion'' (order) ferrari gives them.
michael never was the best f1 driver! by the time he started winning championships ferrari made illegal berylium in the engines to get rid of mclaren which was way faster at that time leaving schumi without competition thas making him a hero for marketing. schumi's car had traction control when it was still illegal!and so many other cheats with tyres, rules, weight etc. brought the championships. its obvius that alonso is the new ''hero'' for them. ferrari never was a team of two equaly treated drivers and second driver was always there to support the first one...
anyway I wasn't suprised to see poor massa giving away his place, as for alonso fans saying that he was faster in the last race and deserved to win. well it's a race not qualifying and been faster is not enough you must do some overtakes too!

[bud]

I don't know how the following will be viewed by the WMSC, mitigating or incriminating:
Smedley told FM earlier that he had to bring the gap to FA up to 3 seconds, so he needed to push with the implication it seems if he wasn't able to do that he would get told that FA was the faster driver. FM wasn't able to do so and hence, the radio message was sent that started the whole schlamassel.
FM as the good Ferrari soldier would say: I was informed that FA was the faster driver. In order to avoid a Red Bull outcome, *I* thought it better to let him by to secure a double podium for the team.
How the stewards or the WMSC could 'prove' that it was team orders and not FM's insight based on the info he was given, I'd really like to see. As long as FM sticks to that line, I can't see any further sanctions handed out to Ferrari.

yet the fact Vettel didn't even pass Massa would make that Lie redundant!

[f1usa]

I don't know how the following will be viewed by the WMSC, mitigating or incriminating:
Smedley told FM earlier that he had to bring the gap to FA up to 3 seconds, so he needed to push with the implication it seems if he wasn't able to do that he would get told that FA was the faster driver. FM wasn't able to do so and hence, the radio message was sent that started the whole schlamassel.
FM as the good Ferrari soldier would say: I was informed that FA was the faster driver. In order to avoid a Red Bull outcome, *I* thought it better to let him by to secure a double podium for the team.
How the stewards or the WMSC could 'prove' that it was team orders and not FM's insight based on the info he was given, I'd really like to see. As long as FM sticks to that line, I can't see any further sanctions handed out to Ferrari.

yet the fact Vettel didn't even pass Massa would make that Lie redundant!

The telementry of Massa's car will be incriminating in light of earlier Smedley radio transmission to Massa.

[mclarry]

I can understand why people are upset as they want to see the best cars fight it out but i think poeple need to look at it in a diff angle. I mean if you look at Red Bull im sure if they could go back and have given team orders to Webber they would have done. In fact i question if they might have given orders but Webber told them where to shuv it...hence the Vettle crazy sign after he got out the car "I thought the team said he would let me pass?"

[MAD MAX]

The telementry of Massa's car will be incriminating in light of earlier Smedley radio transmission to Massa.

The telementary will show that he lifted prior to F.A going past. If I was on the council I'd be telling Ferrari beforehand, don't even think of coming to the hearing armed with or your whole team will be out on its ear

[bud]

they showed the replay with the onscreen telemetry he didn't actually lift, he short shifted two gear changes which in the end slowed him down.

Though Ferrari are saying Massa did this on his own accord but the fact Smedley gave him a coded message any fool knew by the manner in which he said it, also for him to say sorry is another incriminating factor. And if Ferrari Massa included want to say he did it on his own then they should also get done for lying!

[Amanda]

I think the reason I found this so frustrating was the way that Ferrari did it. They might as well have just said "Move over Massa, we're backing Alonso. Think of the championship", it was that obvious. And then to absolutely deny it afterwards, even though I know they have no choice, is doubly annoying.

Of course it doesn't help that they screwed over one of the nicest guys in F1, right on the first anniversary of his life threatening accident, in favour of a man that it's pretty hard to like. It could have been such a good comeback for Massa and Ferrari.

Ultimately, I think it's obvious that there are always team orders but this one was just completely tactless and unnecessary. 7 points, when there are still 200 up for grabs, isn't a great deal; And if Alonso goes on to win the championship by anything less than 8 points, it'll make it a hollow victory in many peoples eyes.

[pilotfriend]

This is just typical of Ferrari. It reminds me of the year when Shumacher broke his leg. Ferrari sacrificed the championship just to prevent Irvine from winning....how else did they bring three wheels to a pit stop!

[myownalias]

Holy Crap; 14 pages after just one day... my two cents; Ferrari got away with this one; $100,000 fine, complete joke, Ferrari should have been excluded from the race results. Are we back to Ferrari International Assistance? On a side note; if Alonso is the most complete F1 driver on the grid; why does he need Massa to pull over and let him pass?

Sadly I didn't see the race so I can't comment further; Internet and TV has been down for the past two days much to my annoyance, streaming doesn't work on 3G

[Jamie]

Disgusting. Very sad today, I feel sad for Felipe. Mathematically correct for us, Respectfully not good for us. I hope Alonso wins yet another race without cheating.

[Crispin]

Have we all gone too far?, were we all driven crazy by the mass media or what? . We don't need to go that back in time to remind that 2 years ago the same events took place and not many ppl made their complaints over here, of course it was the other way round. So plz ppl stop pushing the britton to win at any cost and brush up on this:

Monday, 21 July 2008

"McLaren boss Ron Dennis rejected any suggestion Heikki Kovalainen was the victim of team orders during Sunday's German Formula One Grand Prix.
As Hockenheim winner and championship leader Lewis Hamilton made his way back to the front following the mid-race safety car, his Finnish teammate Kovalainen, now a full 30 points behind in the driver's standings, seemed to pull aside and let his British colleague past.
Hamilton, 23, and Dennis thanked the 26-year-old for his cooperation.
Dennis denied Kovalainen was ordered to cede, which would be a breach of the post 2002 rules.
"The only thing we do is advise our drivers of the respective pace of the other driver", he said."

Since McLaren wasn't fined for this it is evidently unfair if FIA undergoes a different treatment on other teams.
By the way, it has been outrageous how the interviewer harrased both dirvers throughout the press conference, he has been excessively temperamental against both Ferrari drivers.