FORUMula1.com

[kerc]

While I respect every driver on the grid, including 2 time champion Fernando Alonso. His true colors come out time in and time out...here's a question for Alonso fans

How can you root for a guy with the character of a 5 year old? Wait I take that back...a baby

Please give me some feedback I want to know your thoughts

The truth is that this Thread is retarded, and TS is just another hater.
What happened today was Ferrari's decision, not Alonso's, so put the blame on the team leader. I guess everyone forgot about Schumi's era in the scuderia...

I guess everyone also forgot that alonso had "no knowledge" of crashgate either. He has no character. He couldnt pass Massa or he would have before being let by

I repeat, Alonso is always the vortex of controversy.

[McHare]

Although as some say here that its difficult to pin the blame on him in Germany today, it's strange how bad blood, turmoil and suspicion follow him around. Everybody knows what he did to screw McLaren over the spy gate debacle. Even if you dislike McLaren, its hard to understand how he could be so two faced when you look at the circumstances. Then there's the Singapore Sling it in to the wall (well your team mate anyway). How many senior people were dragged down with that? All the time he suspiciously remains reasonably clean. Knowing what an baby and unstable character he is, one can easily imagine him being the one the if not instructs, plants the seed for others to enact. Like hiring a contract killer one can imagine him telling the team how they could win the WDC with him IF you take that data from an ex Ferrari gut IF you have my team mate crash his car IF you make sure that my team mate doesn't get in my way.

[darwin dali]

Although as some say here that its difficult to pin the blame on him in Germany today, it's strange how bad blood, turmoil and suspicion follow him around. Everybody knows what he did to screw McLaren over the spy gate debacle. Even if you dislike McLaren, its hard to understand how he could be so two faced when you look at the circumstances. Then there's the Singapore Sling it in to the wall (well your team mate anyway). How many senior people were dragged down with that? All the time he suspiciously remains reasonably clean. Knowing what an baby and unstable character he is, one can easily imagine him being the one the if not instructs, plants the seed for others to enact. Like hiring a contract killer one can imagine him telling the team how they could win the WDC with him IF you take that data from an ex Ferrari gut IF you have my team mate crash his car IF you make sure that my team mate doesn't get in my way.

That's a bit too rich if you ask me. FA doesn't have that much clout or even smarts to support such a conspiracy theory

[schumifan]

Q: (Byron Young - The Daily Mirror) The reality is, though, that you couldn't beat him on the track, so you had to get the team to do it for you.
FA: If that's your opinion.

Q: (Byron Young - The Daily Mirror) I'm asking you, is that not your opinion?
FA: No.

Q: (Byron Young - The Daily Mirror) He had to give you this win, didn't he, Fernando?
FA: No.

Q: (Ian Gordon - News of the World) Team orders are banned in Formula One. They were banned in 2002, that was blatant team orders.
FA: Sure.

Q: (Ian Gordon - News of the World) Eddie Jordan just said that you two should be kicked out of the race.
FA: Again, if this is the final thought of the weekend for you, I think it is because you didn't see the performance of the team and the performance from our car this weekend

[What's Burning?]

Not "clout" a dark "cloud" over his head.

[martracer]

The truth is, as I have said before, he is a pathetic little cheat, and he does not deserve any kind of support after this.
He has shown again that he has no sense of sportsmanship. If he had won through skill and ability then I would be the first to congratulate the man, but this is a disgraceful event that is sickening, and yet again he has brought the sport into disrepute....

[Serio27]

Any driver whould have said "this is ridiculous" in that situation, being quicker than your teammate and being held up by him. It does not help the team to allow the competition to catch up. In certain circumstances I think team orders should be OK. Just not season wide, where there's a #2 driver who is essentially the personal test driver for the #1.

I agree that team orders should be allowed. For now, the rule still exists though and we have seen both Red Bull and Mclaren drivers battle it out. Ferrari shouldn't be an exception to this rule in fairness to all teams.

Serio

[McHare]

Although as some say here that its difficult to pin the blame on him in Germany today, it's strange how bad blood, turmoil and suspicion follow him around. Everybody knows what he did to screw McLaren over the spy gate debacle. Even if you dislike McLaren, its hard to understand how he could be so two faced when you look at the circumstances. Then there's the Singapore Sling it in to the wall (well your team mate anyway). How many senior people were dragged down with that? All the time he suspiciously remains reasonably clean. Knowing what an baby and unstable character he is, one can easily imagine him being the one the if not instructs, plants the seed for others to enact. Like hiring a contract killer one can imagine him telling the team how they could win the WDC with him IF you take that data from an ex Ferrari gut IF you have my team mate crash his car IF you make sure that my team mate doesn't get in my way.

That's a bit too rich if you ask me. FA doesn't have that much clout or even smarts to support such a conspiracy theory

OK maybe got a little carried away there but I really wouldn't put it past him. We all know his character now and he is without question...... errr ODD.

[Peng]

Any driver whould have said "this is ridiculous" in that situation, being quicker than your teammate and being held up by him. It does not help the team to allow the competition to catch up. In certain circumstances I think team orders should be OK. Just not season wide, where there's a #2 driver who is essentially the personal test driver for the #1.

I agree that team orders should be allowed. For now, the rule still exists though and we have seen both Red Bull and Mclaren drivers battle it out. Ferrari shouldn't be an exception to this rule in fairness to all teams.

Serio

Why should team orders exist? you do realize that every other sport i can think of has a rule against a player/team actively changing the outcome of a match/race/whatever through actions like purposefully throwing a race/fight/game etc, especially considering the popularity of betting on sports in general and the impact such actions would have on betting in general.

I understand why ferrari did it but its not fair to change the outcome of a race even if all you did was switch your 2 drivers around, if alonso wanted the points he could have earned them like every other driver has this year.

I am also somewhat of a snooker fan usually just watching it now and than but i try to keep up to date with the news and those who also follow it would know Higgins 1 of the current top players in the sport got caught discussing match fixing and could receive a lifetime ban just for discussing it and yet Ferrari actually change the outcome of a race and get what was probably less than 1 days worth of income for the company.

[darwin dali]

Any driver whould have said "this is ridiculous" in that situation, being quicker than your teammate and being held up by him. It does not help the team to allow the competition to catch up. In certain circumstances I think team orders should be OK. Just not season wide, where there's a #2 driver who is essentially the personal test driver for the #1.

I agree that team orders should be allowed. For now, the rule still exists though and we have seen both Red Bull and Mclaren drivers battle it out. Ferrari shouldn't be an exception to this rule in fairness to all teams.

Serio

Why should team orders exist? you do realize that every other sport i can think of has a rule against a player/team actively changing the outcome of a match/race/whatever through actions like purposefully throwing a race/fight/game etc, especially considering the popularity of betting on sports in general and the impact such actions would have on betting in general.

I understand why ferrari did it but its not fair to change the outcome of a race even if all you did was switch your 2 drivers around, if alonso wanted the points he could have earned them like every other driver has this year.

I am also somewhat of a snooker fan usually just watching it now and than but i try to keep up to date with the news and those who also follow it would know Higgins 1 of the current top players in the sport got caught discussing match fixing and could receive a lifetime ban just for discussing it and yet Ferrari actually change the outcome of a race and get what was probably less than 1 days worth of income for the company.

Bicycling has team orders galore.

[What's Burning?]

Any driver whould have said "this is ridiculous" in that situation, being quicker than your teammate and being held up by him. It does not help the team to allow the competition to catch up. In certain circumstances I think team orders should be OK. Just not season wide, where there's a #2 driver who is essentially the personal test driver for the #1.

I agree that team orders should be allowed. For now, the rule still exists though and we have seen both Red Bull and Mclaren drivers battle it out. Ferrari shouldn't be an exception to this rule in fairness to all teams.

Serio

Why should team orders exist? you do realize that every other sport i can think of has a rule against a player/team actively changing the outcome of a match/race/whatever through actions like purposefully throwing a race/fight/game etc, especially considering the popularity of betting on sports in general and the impact such actions would have on betting in general.

I understand why ferrari did it but its not fair to change the outcome of a race even if all you did was switch your 2 drivers around, if alonso wanted the points he could have earned them like every other driver has this year.

I am also somewhat of a snooker fan usually just watching it now and than but i try to keep up to date with the news and those who also follow it would know Higgins 1 of the current top players in the sport got caught discussing match fixing and could receive a lifetime ban just for discussing it and yet Ferrari actually change the outcome of a race and get what was probably less than 1 days worth of income for the company.

Bicycling has team orders galore.

But in cycling... there is a team leader that the whole team is built around. Massa would have to give Alonso his car if he got a flat.

[vaptin]

I doubt that much of it was Alonso's decision, more mathematics.

Did you not hear him whining from team radio all day long before they finally let him past?

I said mathematics becuase I was referring to blind, indiscriminate logic. It's all there.

Ferrari are competing to win the wdc and wcc, the team orders had no effect on the wcc points, so no need to consider that.

Alonso is clearly ahead of Massa in the wdc but reasonably behind the redbull and Mclaren drivers, Ferrari need to catch up. Like Brundel said, 2 doesn't go into 1, only one winner for the wdc, Ferrari's best bet is Alonso for the wdc.

As a team they do all in their power to win the wcc and wdc, and thats what they did.

I don't agree with the decision, but I think that was the reasoning Sefano took.

[darwin dali]

Any driver whould have said "this is ridiculous" in that situation, being quicker than your teammate and being held up by him. It does not help the team to allow the competition to catch up. In certain circumstances I think team orders should be OK. Just not season wide, where there's a #2 driver who is essentially the personal test driver for the #1.

I agree that team orders should be allowed. For now, the rule still exists though and we have seen both Red Bull and Mclaren drivers battle it out. Ferrari shouldn't be an exception to this rule in fairness to all teams.

Serio

Why should team orders exist? you do realize that every other sport i can think of has a rule against a player/team actively changing the outcome of a match/race/whatever through actions like purposefully throwing a race/fight/game etc, especially considering the popularity of betting on sports in general and the impact such actions would have on betting in general.

I understand why ferrari did it but its not fair to change the outcome of a race even if all you did was switch your 2 drivers around, if alonso wanted the points he could have earned them like every other driver has this year.

I am also somewhat of a snooker fan usually just watching it now and than but i try to keep up to date with the news and those who also follow it would know Higgins 1 of the current top players in the sport got caught discussing match fixing and could receive a lifetime ban just for discussing it and yet Ferrari actually change the outcome of a race and get what was probably less than 1 days worth of income for the company.

Bicycling has team orders galore.

But in cycling... there is a team leader that the whole team is built around. Massa would have to give Alonso his car if he got a flat.

...which was quite common in Fangio's time

[madbrad]

This thread has a disproportionate amount of opinion that's labelled "truth".
Though it's not a new thing to this place.
I see a fair number of members who worship MS decry a team order that gave Alonso a place. I even saw someone slam Alonso and/or the incident today, and mention how Ferrari used to have this one really great driver before he retired, all in the same post!
To these self contradictions, I say "This is ridiculous!"

[billindenver]

Here we go again. The same old whiners singing the same old tired song. They didn't have a problem when McLaren harped on about saving fuel...which was openly acknowledged in the press as being team orders for Button to not attempt another pass on Hammy. If you don't want it to be a team sport, then race one car per team. Otherwise, this is the reality of racing. All racing. The team is the important thing, as Massa said in the interview afterwards.

When Red Bull let their two drivers 'work it out' on the track, they quite possibly cost themselves a championship. Two team mates, in fairly equal cars with one of them being faster but not overwhelmingly so....trying to fight it out on track is stupid. That's right....it's blatantly, amateurish and stupid. You don't bang up your own team cars trying to force a pass when it is clear which car is faster. All Massa had to do was match Alonso's pace and the team wouldn't have asked him to move over. But Alonso dropped three seconds back and then reeled him in in what, 3 laps? That showed the team his pace and the team didn't have a choice but to put the fast guy in front. Massa couldn't even hold on to his draft. Alonso left him for dead....after following in his dirty air and scrubbing his tires for so long. Massa didn't have an answer for Alonso today...which is a shame...I would have loved to see Massa on the top step. Vettel was all over Massa shortly thereafter...should Alonso have slowed up even further to hold Vettel off of Massa?

The fastest guy won the race. Isn't that what racing is supposed to be? Everyone condemned Vettel and Red Bull for being such idiots and they still talk about how the team isn't 'old and wise' enough to have properly handled Vettel wanting by Webber. Well folks, you saw today how 'old and wise' handle that situation. The faster car takes the lead and leaves the slower car to deal with the hounds nipping at his heels. That is how F1 has been since before most of these complainers were born. It's a team sport. You don't chance ruining millions in sponsorship, points and certainly car parts by going wheel to wheel with you team mate. That would be just stupid. McLaren reeled their boys in when they did it...and they took 1st and 2nd. Red Bull did not...and they lost BOTH the driving and constructors championship lead when the two drivers collided.

I can't blame Ferrari for avoiding that situation. Massa is desperate to prove something about himself that isn't true. He has NEVER been the equal of his teammate...no matter who that teammate is, yet he is desperate to prove that he is. You don't let two team mates battle it out when one of them is that desperate. That would be....well....Red Bull.