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[smokin]

I'll be surprised if Ferrari get a punishment, its going to open up a massive grey area.

Don't agree with the decision, but its always happened.

Yes, it's sad, but a reprimand will probably be the outcome. Ferrari can legitimately argue that all they did is give Massa the facts and it was his own decision to move over "for the good of the team".
Sad. Very sad.

"For the good of the team" would exist in the same way, if Felipe was winner.

Ferrari would keeping the one-two result same way, and the same amount of points as well.

So, this argument of him is invalid.

I hope the stewards see it the same way but I fear that they won't. Vaptin got it right - can of worms.

[Hammer278]

Check this out:

Angry Alonso says race 'manipulated'

By Pablo Elizalde Sunday, June 27th 2010, 14:16 GMT

Fernando AlonsoFernando Alonso was heavily critical of the race stewards of the European Grand Prix, saying the race had been manipulated.

The Spanish driver finished in a distant ninth position after losing out during the safety car period following Mark Webber's crash.

Alonso was running in third at the time, right behind McLaren's Lewis Hamilton, but the Briton overtook the safety car and went on to finish in second.

Hamilton earned a drive-through penalty for his action, but the Briton kept second place while Alonso dropped out of the point-scoring positions for having respected the rules.

The Ferrari driver was angry at the stewards' decision, saying the race had been manipulated by it.

"It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race," he told Spanish television after the race.

"We were running well, in third after a good start. Then the safety car came out, which wasn't too good for us, but Hamilton overtook the safety car, something that I had never seen, overtaking the medical car with yellow flags. We were a metre off each other, and he finished second and I finished ninth.

"This race was to finish second. Then with the safety car I would have finished where I finished in ninth, and Hamilton in eighth. But here, when you do the normal thing, which is respecting the rules, you finish ninth, and the one who doesn't respect them finishes second."

The Spaniard said everything seemed to be going against him and his team.

"It must have been very hard to know," said Alonso of the times it took the stewards to penalise Hamilton. "They must have taken a lot of laps to see the replay of how he overtook the medical car.

"But that's how it is. Unfortunately everything goes against us and it seems they are allowing everything."

[Dolggan]

I'll be surprised if Ferrari get a punishment, its going to open up a massive grey area.

Don't agree with the decision, but its always happened.

Yes, it's sad, but a reprimand will probably be the outcome. Ferrari can legitimately argue that all they did is give Massa the facts and it was his own decision to move over "for the good of the team".
Sad. Very sad.

"For the good of the team" would exist in the same way, if Felipe was winner.

Ferrari would keeping the one-two result same way, and the same amount of points as well.

So, this argument of him is invalid.

No, they also want a WDC and think Massa can't get it this year.

So, he should have said: "For the good of Alonso"

[EagleF1-27]

Looks like they are going to get away with it now. Ferrari are lying through their teeth, Massa has been told to say he let Alonso through. The message Smedley relayed to Massa was just telling him he wasnt fast enough and it wasnt a direct order to give way, and the sorry message was just to say sorry for not going well on the harder tyres. This has all just been reported on the BBC red button forum.
So in coclusion because Massa is going to say it was his decision and his alone, there is nothing the stewards can do.
Doesnt hide the fact Ferrari will now be called liars for the rest of this season. Lying to avoid punishment.

[smokin]

I'll be surprised if Ferrari get a punishment, its going to open up a massive grey area.

Don't agree with the decision, but its always happened.

Yes, it's sad, but a reprimand will probably be the outcome. Ferrari can legitimately argue that all they did is give Massa the facts and it was his own decision to move over "for the good of the team".
Sad. Very sad.

"For the good of the team" would exist in the same way, if Felipe was winner.

Ferrari would keeping the one-two result same way, and the same amount of points as well.

So, this argument of him is invalid.

No, they also want a WDC and think Massa can't get it this year.

So, he should have said: "For the good of Alonso"

[Martin g]

Lie over lie the more they lie the deeper the hole they dig for themselves,
The rules have been broken and there trying to make fools of everyone who has ears.
Change 1st and 2nd place and remove the points the team made but keep the drivers points.
Simple fix 1 car per team that way theres no team orders to worry about.


mag·nan·i·mous

generous in forgiving an insult or injury; free from petty resentfulness or vindictiveness: to be magnanimous toward one's enemies.
2. high-minded; noble: a just and magnanimous ruler.
3. proceeding from or revealing generosity or nobility of mind, character, etc.: a magnanimous gesture of forgiveness

To me the worst thing isnt what they did but the fact the hole team is lying about it,
that to me is probly the worst thing the team could do.
talk about a bad image day.

[fishman2]

Ferrari have had time to sort what they are going to say after the race .the drivers have been told what to say and that is where it will stay. a very sad day for F1 when it says in the rule book no team orders.

[bud]

lying to the stewards now too... ive heard from somewhere thats not allowed either

[pilotfriend]

CHeating is bad in any sport.....seems to be Alonso's way of winning.

[Martin g]

didnt hamilton get into trouble for lying due to him geting peer pressure ?
Ive no idea but the damage ferari is doing to there image will follow them for many years to come,
they should of just come out with the truth the consequences for lying are longer lasting and will damage there image Massively,
talk about fools, i think they all think we are stupid lol

[scotty]

Team orders disgust me in all forms, whether it be preventing a faster following driver from challenging, off-track manipulation (such as Red Bull's actions in Silverstone) or indeed what we saw today with one driver blatantly moving over to benefit the other. However, for me, the thing that makes today's action very sour is the blatant execution of the move and 'cover up' attempt - that is a true kick in the teeth for F1 fans everywhere. Of course, they can't just say what they were actually doing because of the possible consequences from the stewards, although them simply telling it as it is would somewhat ironically (for me) would have made this episode less horrible to experience as an F1 fan.

The only semi-absolving point is that Alonso is indeed the only Ferrari driver really left in the driver's championship and so from the team's point of view, these actions are a necessary evil in order to maintain a realistic challenge. One thing i must point out is that Martin Brundle did get things right (once again) in his comments during the race, in that today was actually not comparable to Austria 2002 due to the situation. Don't think for one second that the other teams in the title race would hesitate to use these tactics for one second either - there is evidence from recent years that supports that. A sad fact of F1, unfortunately, yet it's always going to exist.

Before people jump down my throat for 'supporting' Ferrari here i am just trying to look at things from all angles. So my own personal conclusion? Disguted and frustrated, yet at the same time understanding (to a very small extent) and ultimately accepting of the inevitable.

I feel indescribably sorry for Felipe Massa today. I just hope good karma will give him a nice slice of luck leading to a victory along the line.

Oh, and one last thing - Horner can take any of his comments and shove them given what he's demonstrated this season. I am also amazed at Eddie Jordan for being so vocal when he garned some controversy after apparently using team orders in his first Jordan victory. Pot calling the kettle black? It's oh so common in the F1 media game. You just gotta laugh.

[Spiralmagic]

if ferrari are allowed to break the rules how about the other teams kindly ask lotus who arnt in with a chance of finishing anything but last in the race to deliberately ram alonso off the road when hes trying to pass, thats a bad thing to do but what ferrari have done is just as bad, i just hope alonso leads the championship until final race by a couple of points and and loses the championship all because mcclaren or red bull used ferraris tactics of a "discreet" team order, if this happened ferrari would cry until the fia gave in and changed the rules to suit ferrari and their scummy drivers.........
didnt that nelson piquet jnr get banned for doing team orders.....ban the 2 ferrari drivers as there is no place for cheats in any form of sport

[McHare]

Although you could argue that Ferrari have caused this situation. How much is Alonso's poison influencing them. If I were a Ferrari supporter (and let me tell you that hell would have to freeze over first) I'd want him out. To say he's not a team player is putting it mildly. Be interesting to get a Ferrari supporters view on him. Are you happy he's driving for your tram or are you embarrassed.

[vaptin]

You need to be able to prove Ferrari broke the rules, its obvious Massa let Alonso through but if he and the team stick to the story that Massa made the decision himself, and wasn't ordered to by the team I don't think then that in itself isn't illegal and I don't think the fia will be able to prove it was team orders.

[Dolggan]

Some months ago, when Felipe was renewing his contract with Ferrari, here in Brazil some journalists suggested that supposedly would exist a particular clause in such contract, that Massa was accepting to be the second pilot of the team, being a "squire" or "armor-bearer" (i don't now the word, here we call it "escudeiro") like Rubens was for Schumacher.

The such clause was named "The Barrichello Clause".

Boths parts, Ferrari and Felipe, denied.

But today, things became more clear!