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[Crispin]

Na mate its tiring hearing a fan boy like yourself go on and on about the pass as it might have been legal when any kid on a go kart track knows its illegal! . its clearly illegal to any racer with smarts, cutting a chicane is as basic as it gets, the fact Ferrari and Fernando tried to manipulate the situation and say we thought it was legal just shows their arrogance at the intelligence of the stewards. The stewards did not take a while they took the normal time. geez have you even watched F1 in the past???

How come that it is so clear to you?, is it because people are biased?. Fanaticism / zealotry doesn't make any better when it comes to clearing things up.
I'm attaching a picture of the moment before R.Kubica pushed Alonso out of the road.

[bud]

yep talk about bias....

[Crispin]

yep talk about bias....

That picture doesn't refuse that F. Alonso was pushed out of the road when both dirvers were holding position (or maybe Alonso already gained the position since he could have traced better such curve)

[bud]

sorry crispin its clear the only bias going on here is by Fernando fans. Clearly you guys need to learn the sport of motorracing if you think this was a clean move! FACT

[f1ea]

That picture doesn't refuse that F. Alonso was pushed out of the road when both dirvers were holding position (or maybe Alonso already gained the position since he could have traced better such curve)

I had the same opinion also, when i saw it happening, it did look as if Fernando already had won the turn, because he did have the better track position and was ahead after the 1st apex. but looking at some video, it does not look so clear, because Fernando was behind in the 2nd apex... maybe because he lifted to avoid contact. So it is definitely arguable.

Whatever it was... it was not 100% clear.

I referred to the incident of Vettel and Hamilton in Mgny cours, which was very different because Lewis never had the better track position... (only used the incident as an example).

[What's Burning?]

That picture doesn't refuse that F. Alonso was pushed out of the road when both dirvers were holding position (or maybe Alonso already gained the position since he could have traced better such curve)

Alonso chose to push a pass, he tried the inside while Kubica held his line, which was the better line of the two to make the next turn. Alonso's options were break and fall into line and call it an unsuccessful pass or cut the corner and gained the spot. The rules however is clear cut the corner, four wheels off track he's got to give the position back. If there was doubt, either way why would he/Ferrari risk it? Just give it back now rather than risk exactly what happened, that he was further again and then giving the position back became more painful... then it became impossible because of Kubica's engine failure.

So it went from a clear infraction that they hoped would be overlooked to a drive though. The only fault there was on Ferrari, and or Alonso. You're implying that Kubica is at fault for racing or being difficult to pass (actually you're implying that Kubica pushed him off track). Really?

[f1ea]

Charlie has spoken on this already...........

He tryed to tell ferrari/alonso to let him back through.

Google the story if you want.

Oh dont get me wrong. I have read the story. And I am almost certain Whiting did suggest them to. Maybe he didnt tell them they HAD to surrender the position. In any case, Ferrari definitely felt it was worth playing the gamble because the move was not so clear.

Again..... old bussiness and pointless to go for a new rule or whatever. New rule or not... the result will stand, again. And that is the only thing that's important.

[bud]

the picture i posted shows he cut the chicane haha jesus christ you CANNOT get any more clearer! to make a pass stick in a chicane you cant just be infront for half of if, you have got to make it stick in and out of the chicane, thus keeping all four wheels on track and exiting ahead of the car you passed.

Alonso had the outside line on entry.

Kubica covered it fairly on the inside hit the first apex and had the balls to play chicken with Fernando who instead of backing off chose to go off track. Moment that happened he should have given it right back.

I still cannot fathom how you Fernando fans(lambs is a more fitting description) can continue to back him on this one!

[What's Burning?]

Charlie has spoken on this already...........

He tryed to tell ferrari/alonso to let him back through.

Google the story if you want.

Oh dont get me wrong. I have read the story. And I am almost certain Whiting did suggest them to. Maybe he didnt tell them they HAD to surrender the position. In any case, Ferrari definitely felt it was worth playing the gamble because the move was not so clear.

Again..... old bussiness and pointless to go for a new rule or whatever. New rule or not... the result will stand, again. And that is the only thing that's important.

Just the facts... even when it hurts you can't argue with the rules. You can't pick and choose rules. Agreed and even though it's not easy you're separating passion from objectivity.

[Crispin]

Anyway, following the topic, as a F1 fan I'd like watching drivers to race rather than FIA taking part in when making decisions suits them better or not, so proposals as Ferrari's one might be always welcome.

[bud]

Yeah i like to watch drivers race on track..not off track.

[SaintDean]

Yeah i like to watch drivers race on track..not off track.

If you like off track, theirs always WRC or IRC.

[myownalias]

Ferrari want another rule change? I simply don't believe it!

I think Ferrari should give up racing and start growing [sour] grapes for whinemaking!!!

[nish2280]

As far as a remember (because i was half asleep) he made his move, kubica held his line in an attempt to squeeze Mr. Alonso out when Alonso just decided "F*** it, ill cut the corner".

[Juliet P]

Charlie has spoken on this already...........

He tryed to tell ferrari/alonso to let him back through.

Google the story if you want.

Oh dont get me wrong. I have read the story. And I am almost certain Whiting did suggest them to. Maybe he didnt tell them they HAD to surrender the position. In any case, Ferrari definitely felt it was worth playing the gamble because the move was not so clear.

Again..... old bussiness and pointless to go for a new rule or whatever. New rule or not... the result will stand, again. And that is the only thing that's important.

That's the whole point: they gambled - and lost, and then moaned about it. If they had given the place back they wouldn't have run the risk of being penalised later - and all the randomness that that entails (such as safety cars etc.) Ferrari can blame nobody but themselves.