FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[vaptin]

Whilst we're at it, scrap the two compound rule as well.

1 tyre per race like in 05 then?

No, I just meant don't force them to use both compounds - never like that rule.

[scotty]

i dont understand your logic, nobody needs to pit? if they dont pit they will get DQ for not using both compounds.....

I think he means they can pit outside the SC period for tyres, it won't be like '08 where people got stupid penalties when they HAD to pit otherwise they'd be out of fuel.

[racechick]

I stand corrected. He inherited the lead when all the other drivers pitted due to the safety car...which gives credence to him being in on the deal.

Yes. Please stand do corrected...
BTW, I meant he didnt use the pits in that SC to claim position as you said...

I'll address you once again to my reply with further explanation as i think you've missed the point.
I stand corrected because he didnt use the pits in that SC to claim position as I said (hence stand corrected). But what he did do was pit beforehis team mate crashed and inherited the lead when the rest of the field pitted under he SC. So once again no, he didnt gain positions when he pitted but he did gain positions when the rest of the field pitted. Is it clearer now??

[f1ea]

i dont understand your logic, nobody needs to pit? if they dont pit they will get DQ for not using both compounds.....

I think he means they can pit outside the SC period for tyres, it won't be like '08 where people got stupid penalties when they HAD to pit otherwise they'd be out of fuel.

Exactly.

[bud]

I know what he meant but it's flawed, there is a need to pit during a dey race so whenever a SC is called cars will pit as it is advantageous to do so. Until they remove any need to pit one tyre per race/one tank of fuel per race there will be pit stops during SC periods.

[f1ea]

I know what he meant but it's flawed, there is a need to pit during a dey race so whenever a SC is called cars will pit as it is advantageous to do so. Until they remove any need to pit one tyre per race/one tank of fuel per race there will be pit stops during SC periods.

Pit closed while SC is out. It was like that last yr or the yr before. Re-open them on green flag (after the last car passed the SC or start-finish). Very simple.

The cars that pitted early have an advantage because the field bunched up, but then its a gamble to take an early pit startegy... the possible benefit evens up. No silly lights on pit exit. No-one claiming positions while SC is out... who cares if you went faster because you cant make positions anyway. Who cares where the SC caught you, because no one can enter the pits anyway....

Exception maybe if someone is going on a very late stop strategy for the 2nd compound... then no penalty for not using both compounds if the race ends on a SC. Very unlikely.

[What's Burning?]

Guys, it's all right, Hamilton and Alonso are text message buddies.


Over on GPupdate

Hamilton in touch with Alonso after Valencia

Lewis Hamilton has explained how he has been in contact with Fernando Alonso via text message following the controversy involving the pair at the European Grand Prix. The Spaniard was clearly annoyed with the Englishman during the race after the latter illegitimately overtook the Safety Car.

As the Safety Car was deployed at the start of Lap 10 following Mark Webber’s monster accident with Heikki Kovalainen, Hamilton overtook the Bernd Mayländer-driven vehicle by a narrow but illegal margin.

Whereas Hamilton shot ahead, both Ferraris were forced to lap slowly behind the Safety Car before making their pit-stops
With Hamilton having been able to finish second whereas Alonso, who was caught behind the Safety Car, came home a highly disappointed eighth, Hamilton has since explained that he and his former team-mate have been in communication following Alonso’s comments which described the race as ‘manipulated’.

“We are in touch,” Lewis explained to Reuters. “He has my number and I have his number. We messaged the other day, things are cool. I just messaged him to see how he was doing and he said everything's cool, he knows how the racing world works and that this is a tough year.”

[Hammer278]

Again, that is from Lewis' mouth. Nothing from Alonso as yet.

F1ea, I understand your point in wanting to change the rules back to no pits under SC situation. But that takes out a massive chunk of racing and strategy. I for one, watch races to see the wheel to wheel racing, and also the quick thinking of teams in bringing their cars in at the right time, gaining the advantage on others through brains instead of just brawns. It adds a whole lot for me. Maybe I'm alone in this, I don't know.

But I remember before Brazil 2003 where Alonso crashed heavily into Webber's broken car on the main straights, there were NO complaints and everyone accepted the gambling part of F1...the only complaint was that cars were driving too fast to take advantage and thus, risking the safety aspect. But now we have the rule where cars have to give that certain 'grace' period under the SC situation...although it's hard for the drivers to judge!

I say, keep the rules as they are. This gives a chance for slower cars to take advantage big time and then make life harder for the faster ones in front. Life ain't fair. But it makes for a great show, and that is what I watch the sport for.

In regards to safety, just install a limiter...let's say 100kph when the SC crosses the mystical 'white line' on the exit of a pitlane. This way cars can't speed up...everyone's on nearly the same speed whether they are entering the pitlane, or not. With all the technology present, this standard 'limiter' shouldn't be costly to implement. It will also help drivers to know WHEN NOT TO OVERTAKE the SC car...when their cars are under the limiter (flashing red light or whatever), it means SC is on TRACK.

[darwin dali]

Again, that is from Lewis' mouth. Nothing from Alonso as yet.

F1ea, I understand your point in wanting to change the rules back to no pits under SC situation. But that takes out a massive chunk of racing and strategy. I for one, watch races to see the wheel to wheel racing, and also the quick thinking of teams in bringing their cars in at the right time, gaining the advantage on others through brains instead of just brawns. It adds a whole lot for me. Maybe I'm alone in this, I don't know.

But I remember before Brazil 2003 where Alonso crashed heavily into Webber's broken car on the main straights, there were NO complaints and everyone accepted the gambling part of F1...the only complaint was that cars were driving too fast to take advantage and thus, risking the safety aspect. But now we have the rule where cars have to give that certain 'grace' period under the SC situation...although it's hard for the drivers to judge!

I say, keep the rules as they are. This gives a chance for slower cars to take advantage big time and then make life harder for the faster ones in front. Life ain't fair. But it makes for a great show, and that is what I watch the sport for.

In regards to safety, just install a limiter...let's say 100kph when the SC crosses the mystical 'white line' on the exit of a pitlane. This way cars can't speed up...everyone's on nearly the same speed whether they are entering the pitlane, or not. With all the technology present, this standard 'limiter' shouldn't be costly to implement. It will also help drivers to know WHEN NOT TO OVERTAKE the SC car...when their cars are under the limiter (flashing red light or whatever), it means SC is on TRACK.

So, the limiter kicks in while doing 330km/h on the back straight? Could be fun...

[Hammer278]

I am sure a simple ECU will be able to decelerate the car at a safe rate which doesn't choke the gearbox!!

[bud]

it's no different if youre on the soft compound and its good for say 15 laps anymore after that you lose 1 second a lap due to tyre wear or graining... Start the race on pole, you build a ten second gap, your pit window is on lap 15, when bang a SC is called you lose that 10 second gap then then expected to race on more than the 15 laps because you cant pit during the SC.

how is that any different to the fuel scenario? the driver has to pit to stay competitive!

[SaintDean]

Again, that is from Lewis' mouth. Nothing from Alonso as yet.

F1ea, I understand your point in wanting to change the rules back to no pits under SC situation. But that takes out a massive chunk of racing and strategy. I for one, watch races to see the wheel to wheel racing, and also the quick thinking of teams in bringing their cars in at the right time, gaining the advantage on others through brains instead of just brawns. It adds a whole lot for me. Maybe I'm alone in this, I don't know.

But I remember before Brazil 2003 where Alonso crashed heavily into Webber's broken car on the main straights, there were NO complaints and everyone accepted the gambling part of F1...the only complaint was that cars were driving too fast to take advantage and thus, risking the safety aspect. But now we have the rule where cars have to give that certain 'grace' period under the SC situation...although it's hard for the drivers to judge!

I say, keep the rules as they are. This gives a chance for slower cars to take advantage big time and then make life harder for the faster ones in front. Life ain't fair. But it makes for a great show, and that is what I watch the sport for.

In regards to safety, just install a limiter...let's say 100kph when the SC crosses the mystical 'white line' on the exit of a pitlane. This way cars can't speed up...everyone's on nearly the same speed whether they are entering the pitlane, or not. With all the technology present, this standard 'limiter' shouldn't be costly to implement. It will also help drivers to know WHEN NOT TO OVERTAKE the SC car...when their cars are under the limiter (flashing red light or whatever), it means SC is on TRACK.

The drivers have a lap time they have to drive too, too fast and its a penalty.

[Fodda]

Re this argument for closing the pit lane during SC deployment. I see two problems...

ONE:

There will always be a time after the race director has decided that a SC is required and the information getting out around the track and to all drivers. It is pretty damn quick, but at some tracks there's quite a gap between marshal posts (could be a second or so)... So when the SC actually is deployed and Charley pushes the SC button... A message goes out to all marshal posts, marshals then rush to grab the board and flags and hold them oout (that's going to take a bit of time), team pitwall crew are told, they then have to relay that info to the drivers.

The time between Charley deciding that the SC needs to be on track and each driver reacting could be anything from nearly instantaneous, to a couple of seconds. So when do you close the pitlane? What about cars that are lined up ready to pit (think of the loss of speed and positions coming off the Parabolica and aiming for the pit lane at Monza); cars actually in the pit lane (and what about that car that's only a couple of metres short of crossing the line when the light goes from green to red?)

It's workable, but the above example of a car that's decelerating to the pit entry line but is a few metres short when the light changes may well end up with a drive through later in the race, and could affect others' outcomes.

TWO:

Cars pelting around a track on slicks... Suddenly rain! We know what happens, a car comes across it and spins out, crashes etc etc... Depending on the outcome a SC could well be called by Charley. Now the pit lane's closed and all the cars have to tippy toe round behind the SC with slicks because they're not allowed to enter the pitlane until the green flags are waved. How are you going to police that one? Especially if the rain was seen by one (or more) driver who (before the accident) dived into the pits and put on Inters or full wets? How are you going to disadvantage that crafty driver? How will you disadvantage the other not so crafty or plain unlucky drivers on slicks during the same rain, say in Malaysia?

Anyway... Just my couple of thoughts on this tricky subject... Just trying to point out that rule making/changing is a tricky business, it's a wonder the FIA don't get a lot more abuse when you think about it.

Too logical and reasonable? Tough!

[Hammer278]

Again, that is from Lewis' mouth. Nothing from Alonso as yet.

F1ea, I understand your point in wanting to change the rules back to no pits under SC situation. But that takes out a massive chunk of racing and strategy. I for one, watch races to see the wheel to wheel racing, and also the quick thinking of teams in bringing their cars in at the right time, gaining the advantage on others through brains instead of just brawns. It adds a whole lot for me. Maybe I'm alone in this, I don't know.

But I remember before Brazil 2003 where Alonso crashed heavily into Webber's broken car on the main straights, there were NO complaints and everyone accepted the gambling part of F1...the only complaint was that cars were driving too fast to take advantage and thus, risking the safety aspect. But now we have the rule where cars have to give that certain 'grace' period under the SC situation...although it's hard for the drivers to judge!

I say, keep the rules as they are. This gives a chance for slower cars to take advantage big time and then make life harder for the faster ones in front. Life ain't fair. But it makes for a great show, and that is what I watch the sport for.

In regards to safety, just install a limiter...let's say 100kph when the SC crosses the mystical 'white line' on the exit of a pitlane. This way cars can't speed up...everyone's on nearly the same speed whether they are entering the pitlane, or not. With all the technology present, this standard 'limiter' shouldn't be costly to implement. It will also help drivers to know WHEN NOT TO OVERTAKE the SC car...when their cars are under the limiter (flashing red light or whatever), it means SC is on TRACK.

The drivers have a lap time they have to drive too, too fast and its a penalty.

Yeah but it's not working. In valencia a couple of drivers got a penalty for not following this. Plus, it makes no sense for safety. Why can't a driver purposely drive almost at a standstill to lose 5 seconds and then drive the rest of the lap at full speed? So as to gauge losing minimum time in that lap. Let's face it, they would not be willing to give up any time at all during this duration, maybe it'd be better to install a system to get everyone to travel at a much lower speed throughout the lap.

[f1ea]

it's no different if youre on the soft compound and its good for say 15 laps anymore after that you lose 1 second a lap due to tyre wear or graining... Start the race on pole, you build a ten second gap, your pit window is on lap 15, when bang a SC is called you lose that 10 second gap then then expected to race on more than the 15 laps because you cant pit during the SC.

how is that any different to the fuel scenario? the driver has to pit to stay competitive!

You are not expected to race more than 15 laps, because you are not expected to be racing under the SC. So, in the end it will remain a 1 lap-worth of time lost. The difference with the fuel scenario, is that 1 extra lap on low fuel can stop you on track. Yeah, the problem will always be timing... the field gets bunched up. That is inevitable, unless there was some crazy NASA-GPS repositioning system...

The key is, both positions and pitting will be done under green flag. For everyone.

If it's safe to come into pits... it should also be safe to come out. Why the red lights then??
If there's no passing under SC, why are positions being made then??
i think it contradicts itself.