FORUMula1.com

[AKR]

C'mon Tifosi: Hamilton paid his dues.

What do you want Lewis to do, say "Oh, my, this punishment is surely not sufficient--I'll park the car for a minute in the pits"? Self-flagellation doesn't apply to racing (unless you're racing the 24 Hours of Le Mans); he did what the stewards ordered. He stepped on the gas, made very quick times, and add to that the fact that the Saubers are borderline rolling chicanes, he managed to stick to third. Even the guys at Speed were amazed that there was no one there when he came out of the drive-through!

Lewis didn't cheat, didn't rob anyone, he made a mistake, he did what ordered by the stewards. The whining is totally unnecessary. And if it had happened to Alonso, I would still think exactly the same way.

Get over it.

Yah those pesky Tifosi with their own opinions whats the world coming too??

Dude, I got a Tifosi here at home, my 13 year-old son. My team is McLaren but I secretly admire when Ferrari does its thing right. Shhh...But I do think that one thing is opinion, and the other is reality. And what I stated is the reality of things, the facts. Honestly, if the situation was reversed, I would think nothing of Alonso--he'd be okay in my books.

Your son is a champion. So if you like McLaren, where did your son get his super Ferrari genes from?

[AKR]

I know being British I should feel somewhat obliged to support the Macca boys and Lewis and Jenson, and I fully admit that Lewis is one of the fastest drivers out there......but I just can't stand him as a person. Every time he gets interviewed after a race I just have to turn it over to another channel for a while, and don't even get me started on his airhead girlfriend

But that's totally my problem, I'm sure there are plenty of Hamilton fans out there.

Sorry, rant over.

McLaren is really Kiwi because Bruce McLaren the founder was Kiwi. So you being British you don't really have to support Macca. There are more pure British teams out there like Williams for example.

[Fodda]

Yep, Kiwi teams are good! In fact most of the teams out there are either based wholly or partly in the UK. Ferrari even have a base here...

Nowt wrong in supporting Williams. Blimey! I even have a nice Benetton F1 jacket! I could have that as the great under-achieving Johnny Herbert was driving there when I bought it.

[f1ea]

Honestly, the whining is not directed at Lewis; but rather at the FIA/Race control who failed to accomodate the SC and the grid to allow a transparent result. Very few have blamed lewis, perhaps because he had the role of being the 'boundary' and actually broke a rule...

The result and penalties as were, simply means strange things happened... and there was nothing to do. When in fact, there WERE things to do... even in the heat of the battle. I can think of several... but why bother.

C'mon. it was a simple crash (overlooking the dangerous bit on webber's part) in a huge runoff area... Webber got out immediately ensuring he was ok. Race control handled it like a college party handles "hide the weed, the cops are here".

Your son is a champion. So if you like McLaren, where did your son get his super Ferrari genes from?

Yeah. Wise kid.

[bud]

what did race control do wrong exactly? What was different to other SC periods of other races? other than deliberately taking for ever to hand out a penalty at the grievance of one team?

[kerc]

Honestly, the whining is not directed at Lewis; but rather at the FIA/Race control who failed to accomodate the SC and the grid to allow a transparent result. Very few have blamed lewis, perhaps because he had the role of being the 'boundary' and actually broke a rule...

The result and penalties as were, simply means strange things happened... and there was nothing to do. When in fact, there WERE things to do... even in the heat of the battle. I can think of several... but why bother.

C'mon. it was a simple crash (overlooking the dangerous bit on webber's part) in a huge runoff area... Webber got out immediately ensuring he was ok. Race control handled it like a college party handles "hide the weed, the cops are here".

Your son is a champion. So if you like McLaren, where did your son get his super Ferrari genes from?

Yeah. Wise kid.

We're just pretty open-minded. I can actually appreciate when other teams do good stuff. About the race, hell yes, it was all so odd. At one point I had no idea what the hell was going on.

[f1ea]

what did race control do wrong exactly? What was different to other SC periods of other races? other than deliberately taking for ever to hand out a penalty at the grievance of one team?

other than taking at least 20% of the race to go by to issue any penalty AFTER a competitor's notification. Would they have even looked at it had Ferrari not furiously called??

They did wrong:

1) Allowing for cars to actually race during, and while the SC was getting deployed... sure they gave them a 5s penalty after the race. I wonder who called them to notify some cars went fast.

2) Missing the leader. And missing the implications of this, as obvious as they were IMMEDIATELY after the SC came out.

3) Failure to arrange the grid accordingly, even while everyone was able to see the irregularities. Meaning... had it all gone smoothly... no one speeding, no one passing the SC, etc it could have easily gone overlooked. BUT as it was, filled with irrgularities, it had to be looked at BEFORE they resumed the race.

4) Other races... well, last yr pit lane was closed until the field got arranged. There's a new rule this yr, that frankly... has no meaning, because i have said a few times there is no need to refuel anymore. Did they not know this??

on the Alonso specific case... sure, Lewis' penalty cost him the possibility of challenging for ther win. But he broke a rule. With the issue of Lewis' damaged wing, Alonso was actually to challenge for the win as well... however, without breaking any rules he got even more severely penalised by the fia's mistake than ANY other penalty handed out.

How much time did Fernando and Massa lose behind the SC (about a min, and they came out behind the midfield cars)?
What was the longest penalty dealt? 5 secs. And it was AFTER the race. That's and everyone knew there was a problem. They simply didnt know how to deal with it.

Tough luck? tough luck would have been had nobody broken the rules. Or for example if Jenson had won.. that would have been luck because he fortunately timed his stop before the whole mess. That's luck. Not what happened.

[bud]

1. no they penalised them they cant make a car slow down during a race. its up to the drivers to do that

2. They did not miss the leader, the SC is deployed when ever it is called, it leaves the pit area when the course goes "SC" it doesn't wait for the leader to come around. Always has been like this.

3. Seemed the grid was in order to me once the SC pulled in. Some pitted some didnt.

4. Alonso challenge for the win? please

And on Lewis, you cant tell me Alonso wouldn't have tried to stay in front of the SC, I know i would have and in the end he was 1m in the wrong. not so bad as Ferrari make it out to be, the way they carry on they make it sound like the SC was directly ahead of him and he pulled out and overtook it.

end of the day its the Ferrari fans who are thinking this is all wrong, when in reality this is the normal occurrences for a SC!

[myownalias]

This year has been one HUGE FIA screw up really, all these new rules and regulations that have come in over the past few years and the FIA seem to have no idea of how to implement and enforce those rules. This is the second safety car screw-up this season and we are only half way through the season. It's gotten to the point now that I expect something to be screwed up by the FIA. But of course most are quick to jump on Lewis/McLaren for cheating when infact they got caught on the wrong side of an FIA screw up.

[myownalias]

2. They did not miss the leader, the SC is deployed when ever it is called, it leaves the pit area when the course goes "SC" it doesn't wait for the leader to come around. Always has been like this.

If that's true then it's wholly unfair as effectively the drivers that pass the SC line before the SC has left the pit lane have a huge advantage as they can stop without any penalty; that to me takes the racing aspect out of it. You might be right about this but myself and many others it seems think that the SC is supposed to pick up the leader!

[vaptin]

Alonso might've challenged for the win, he stuck in the fastest lap shortly before the safety car was called out.

[f1ea]

end of the day its the Ferrari fans who are thinking this is all wrong, when in reality this is the normal occurrences for a SC!

End of the day, they were the ones caught by the SC. They didnt break the rules. Others did. Had it been ANY other team exactly in the dividing line of the screw up... i'm sure the reaction would have been the same.

4. Alonso challenge for the win? please

So Lewis was?
please with his broken wing?

But of course most are quick to jump on Lewis/McLaren for cheating when infact they got caught on the wrong side of an FIA screw up.

Exactly.
Unfortunately, it was Lewis at the border point with Alonso at the "other side of the fence". So of course, its going to be a Lewis vs Alonso thing.

[bud]

2. They did not miss the leader, the SC is deployed when ever it is called, it leaves the pit area when the course goes "SC" it doesn't wait for the leader to come around. Always has been like this.

If that's true then it's wholly unfair as effectively the drivers that pass the SC line before the SC has left the pit lane have a huge advantage as they can stop without any penalty; that to me takes the racing aspect out of it. You might be right about this but myself and many others it seems think that the SC is supposed to pick up the leader!

Since when HAS a SC period been fair? Are people seriously that naive that they are only realising this now?

Ok, once on track it will look for the leader. But once you drive up to it no matter your position you need to stay behind it until it flashes you past, They will continue doing this until they pick up the leader, and with so many pitting it is a tough task to achieve for race control.
Whats for certain is it doesn't come out as (F1ea is suggesting) just before the leader is about to go past the start finish line. What if the leader just passes the start finish line and then a big accident happens that requires a SC, they would have to wait an entire lap at race speeds for the leader to come by before the SC comes on track. Sorry doesnt work like that. It comes out when its needed no matter who it is infront of.



F1ea where did i say Lewis was challenging for the win?

[f1ea]

2. They did not miss the leader, the SC is deployed when ever it is called, it leaves the pit area when the course goes "SC" it doesn't wait for the leader to come around. Always has been like this.

If that's true then it's wholly unfair as effectively the drivers that pass the SC line before the SC has left the pit lane have a huge advantage as they can stop without any penalty; that to me takes the racing aspect out of it. You might be right about this but myself and many others it seems think that the SC is supposed to pick up the leader!

It has been done beofre in F1. There's been races where the SC waits for the leader, or the SC allows the back to pass only to allow the leader to catch up and rearrange the grid. im not good on trivia... i have a very vague memory of everyhting. But i know i've seen it happen.

[f1ea]

F1ea where did i say Lewis was challenging for the win?

others have said the panalty cost Lewis the chance to challenge for the wing. Therefore it was fair punishment.
it wasnt you?