F1 and Motorsport Forums
f1ea wrote: I guess its all a matter of knowing WHY was Vettel faster than Mark (we know Mark was on fuel save, but was he really?)No Mark wasnt on fuel save mode, Vettel just miraculously pulled an extra 10kw of power out of his arse
bud wrote:I mean if he was really on fuel save because he was running out of fuel, or if he was "put" in fuel save mode. So, was Mark really in the need to save fuel or not?f1ea wrote: I guess its all a matter of knowing WHY was Vettel faster than Mark (we know Mark was on fuel save, but was he really?)No Mark wasnt on fuel save mode, Vettel just miraculously pulled an extra 10kw of power out of his arse
Fred_C_Dobbs wrote:What if Webber had given way? What if he clearly had moved over to allow Vettel to pass? Would we now be on the 29th page of a thread arguing whether the stewards were right in penalising RBR for practising team orders?I dunno, Two cars fighting for position are often slower and there are times when a driver'll be told to let a car from another team pass without a fight when it's likely that it'll get past at some point before the end of the race anyway so it doesn't lose time to other cars just behind. The decision by Red Bull could've been made to maximize their chances at a 1-2 finish and maybe even have been an advantage for Webber, if that's true about Webbers engineer then I think that's a pretty poor show by him, yeah he was sticking up for Webber but they have to work as a team.
stonemonkey wrote:Even if the team are screwing your man?Fred_C_Dobbs wrote:What if Webber had given way? What if he clearly had moved over to allow Vettel to pass? Would we now be on the 29th page of a thread arguing whether the stewards were right in penalising RBR for practising team orders?I dunno, Two cars fighting for position are often slower and there are times when a driver'll be told to let a car from another team pass without a fight when it's likely that it'll get past at some point before the end of the race anyway so it doesn't lose time to other cars just behind. The decision by Red Bull could've been made to maximize their chances at a 1-2 finish and maybe even have been an advantage for Webber, if that's true about Webbers engineer then I think that's a pretty poor show by him, yeah he was sticking up for Webber but they have to work as a team.
myownalias wrote:I have always maintained that F1 is about racing, whether it be your team mate or another team's driver, it's not synchronised driving, if team mates are not allowed to race each other, what's the point of racing at all? The team should be able to pick drivers that are hard but fair and allow them to race. The only time I agree one driver should be allowed to pass another is if one driver is so far behind in the championship race that they can not win the championship.
If team orders are banned from F1; then after this revelation; Red Bull should be fined, excluded from the race or at minimum docked points.
myownalias wrote:I have always maintained that F1 is about racing, whether it be your team mate or another team's driver, it's not synchronised driving, if team mates are not allowed to race each other, what's the point of racing at all? The team should be able to pick drivers that are hard but fair and allow them to race. The only time I agree one driver should be allowed to pass another is if one driver is so far behind in the championship race that they can not win the championship.
If team orders are banned from F1; then after this revelation; Red Bull should be fined, excluded from the race or at minimum docked points.
myownalias wrote:...The only time I agree one driver should be allowed to pass another is if one driver is so far behind in the championship race that they can not win the championship.The current ban on team orders was part of the fallout from the 2002 GP of Austria. Going in to the race, Schumey (driving for Ferrari) had 44 WDC points and Rubens, his teammate, had 6 (if you were Schumey's teammate at Ferrari, you started the season so far behind that you couldn't possibly win the championship). Rubens -- who was leading the race -- was ordered to let Michael pass but, to make certain the whole world would know he was robbed, Rubens waited until after the final turn and slowed dramatically as he approached the finish line.
If team orders are banned from F1; then after this revelation; Red Bull should be fined, excluded from the race or at minimum docked points.
.stonemonkey wrote:I don't really agree with that, it could've been their best chance for a 1-2 finish or else let the fighting red bulls fall prey to the Mclarens which is what happened anyway and could've happened even if there had been no instructions at all. This is all very reminiscent of the attitudes towards Mclaren and Hamilton but (even as a Hamilton fan and not Vettel) I find this even more undeserving.Why couldnt they just let Vettel protect marks rear? this would be normal procedure-protect the leader. He'd held off the McLarens all race, why the sudden concern about them?Particularly as they were turning down the wick and broadcasting this.
racechick wrote:Yep and Vettel needs the points bigtime but apparently the teams has another agenda.stonemonkey wrote:I don't really agree with that, it could've been their best chance for a 1-2 finish or else let the fighting red bulls fall prey to the Mclarens which is what happened anyway and could've happened even if there had been no instructions at all. This is all very reminiscent of the attitudes towards Mclaren and Hamilton but (even as a Hamilton fan and not Vettel) I find this even more undeserving.Why couldnt they just let Vettel protect marks rear? this would be normal procedure-protect the leader. He'd held off the McLarens all race, why the sudden concern about them?Particularly as they were turning down the wick and broadcasting this.
Fred_C_Dobbs wrote:Yes I remember it well; scandalous but I don't blame Barrichello in the slightest... it was bullpoo of the highest order... as was asking Mark to let Vettel pass... Rubens was the better driver on that day in 2002 as was Mark at the Turkish Grand Prix... I simply don't believe Red Bull's actions were anything but favouritism, despite Red Bull's denials.myownalias wrote:...The only time I agree one driver should be allowed to pass another is if one driver is so far behind in the championship race that they can not win the championship.The current ban on team orders was part of the fallout from the 2002 GP of Austria. Going in to the race, Schumey (driving for Ferrari) had 44 WDC points and Rubens, his teammate, had 6 (if you were Schumey's teammate at Ferrari, you started the season so far behind that you couldn't possibly win the championship). Rubens -- who was leading the race -- was ordered to let Michael pass but, to make certain the whole world would know he was robbed, Rubens waited until after the final turn and slowed dramatically as he approached the finish line.
If team orders are banned from F1; then after this revelation; Red Bull should be fined, excluded from the race or at minimum docked points.
Ferrari's team principal that day was none other than Jean Todt.
McLaren Racing opened its new state-of-the-art Rac[…]
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