FORUMula1.com

[What's Burning?]

In my opinion the best moment of racing so far this year.

[Jabberwocky]

In my opinion the best moment of racing so far this year.

your right, it was a good clean fight, and I am sure other teams could learn from it lol

[The Ram]

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

[ivey]

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

Wow Jenson did make a very sneaky move on him. But Hamilton practically told "not to fck with him" right in the next corner.

[f1ea]

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

A mistake form the team, how so? because they didnt SLOW DOWN Jenson??

Clearly Lewis was hoping Mclaren gave the order to slow down Jenson. To me the battle was very fair: Lewis spent his fuel racing Vettel while Jenson cruised til the end and took advantage of the other drivers' early aggressiveness. Until the team told him to cool it.

The pass by Jenson was definitely the best pass of that day... It was a sweet move against Lewis "nobody takes on the outside" Hamilton who was actually thinking Jenson wasnt going to pull a move.

[texasmr2]

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

Can we honestly say it was a 'mistake by the team'? I smell and coverup by the team.

Wow Jenson did make a very sneaky move on him. But Hamilton practically told "not to fck with him" right in the next corner.

Hamilton also risked a DNF with that move .

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

A mistake form the team, how so? because they didnt SLOW DOWN Jenson??

Clearly Lewis was hoping Mclaren gave the order to slow down Jenson. To me the battle was very fair: Lewis spent his fuel racing Vettel while Jenson cruised til the end and took advantage of the other drivers' early aggressiveness. Until the team told him to cool it.

The pass by Jenson was definitely the best pass of that day... It was a sweet move against Lewis "nobody takes on the outside" Hamilton who was actually thinking Jenson wasnt going to pull a move.

[The Ram]

Not really for me.. It wasn't started in the proper way (mistake from the team). I want to see them battling fair and square.

A mistake form the team, how so? because they didnt SLOW DOWN Jenson??

Clearly Lewis was hoping Mclaren gave the order to slow down Jenson. To me the battle was very fair: Lewis spent his fuel racing Vettel while Jenson cruised til the end and took advantage of the other drivers' early aggressiveness. Until the team told him to cool it.

The pass by Jenson was definitely the best pass of that day... It was a sweet move against Lewis "nobody takes on the outside" Hamilton who was actually thinking Jenson wasnt going to pull a move.

Hamilton is supposed to have more fuel actually. That's he was slipstreaming for the most of the race. Jenson's pace was a little faster than Hamilton's for most of the time and he was not slipstreaming. That means he may have had better tyres by the end but definitely not a significant amount more fuel, more than likely less I think. If his pace was slower then somehow a saftey car or some obstacle stopped the front runners causing Button to catch them, then yes he will have more fuel BUT in this case is was straight driving from beginning to end, and Jenson was not slipstreaming ANY ONE. Logically he is to have less fuel than Hamilton. Think of Migrating Geese.

[f1ea]

Hamilton is supposed to have more fuel actually. That's he was slipstreaming for the most of the race. Jenson's pace was a little faster than Hamilton's for most of the time and he was not slipstreaming. That means he may have had better tyres by the end but definitely not a significant amount more fuel, more than likely less I think. If his pace was slower then somehow a saftey car or some obstacle stopped the front runners causing Button to catch them, then yes he will have more fuel BUT in this case is was straight driving from beginning to end, and Jenson was not slipstreaming ANY ONE. Logically he is to have less fuel than Hamilton. Think of Migrating Geese.

No. Because Lewis was not necessarilly slipstreaming, he was actually attempting to pass for quite a while. This spends your tires and your fuel. Also, everyone says F1s are not able to overtake because air behind them is dirty... then it would seem more reasonable that the aero of the trailing car is actually compromised. Meaning less efficieny, and i think more drag and more tire wear. A guy driving alone always has the optimum racing line vs a guy defending or pushing to pass.

Jenson didnt get the fuel save call until after the Lewis battle. He could have been not even running out of fuel. Lewis must have been almost critical, otherwise the team wouldnt have called on him to save.

Please note i'm not saying Lewis did anything wrong. Just that his specific racing conditions made it so that he spent more fuel than Jenson (in any case it would have been just 2-3 laps worth).

[The Ram]

No less drag but more tyre wear. Drive behind another car on the highway and watch your fuel mileage display go to a lesser liters/km or higher mpg. just like migrating birds, or the tour de france teams. This is well known, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Less drag is obviously less power required you can't argue this. Jenson was saving tyres by hanging behind because as we know fuel was not an issue for him. If he wanted to safe more fuel he would have lined up behind Hamilton, like what Vettel was doing.

What was Jenson's pace in the race btw? I bet he was faster or about the same as Hamilton except he was in open air (more drag) the man can't save fuel like that.

[The Ram]

Here is an interesting video by the way. This is leading me to believe Jenson flat out disobeyed the team's instruction. I was looking for a mistake from Hamilton but there was none, it's almost like Jenson's engine was going full revs all the time. You can hear Hamilton turn up his revs right after he is passed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuKJhnBA64E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[racechick]

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but its MASSIVE!!!!!

I'm shocked that the news sites haven't even picked up on this piece of radio chatter yet. Anyway, Lewis was told to back off by the team, and at that time he actually asked the team "if I back off will Jenson try to pass me" to which McLaren said "no"

So Lewis did slow down thinking Jenson had been told not to pass him. But Jenson comes flying around the outside. It's featured on the offical F1 site in their highlights video of turkey towards the end.
http://www.formula1.com/video/?inptC=Tu ... ace%20Edit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anyone wanted the absoulte truth as to why Lewis was slighty down after the race there it is.

I think some of you guys are missing this vital piece of information!!
"if I back off will Jenson try to pass me" to which McLaren said "no"

Lewis was jumped when told Jens would be backing off. Not jens' fault. But lewis was at a disadvantage......and still got the place back.

[f1ea]

No less drag but more tyre wear. Drive behind another car on the highway and watch your fuel mileage display go to a lesser liters/km or higher mpg. just like migrating birds, or the tour de france teams. This is well known, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

This is true on straights. I doubt it happens like this on curves with highly aero-dependent cars.
It can also be true when you are not actually trying to make the pass, Lewis did try several passes.

[What's Burning?]

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but its MASSIVE!!!!!

I'm shocked that the news sites haven't even picked up on this piece of radio chatter yet. Anyway, Lewis was told to back off by the team, and at that time he actually asked the team "if I back off will Jenson try to pass me" to which McLaren said "no"

So Lewis did slow down thinking Jenson had been told not to pass him. But Jenson comes flying around the outside. It's featured on the offical F1 site in their highlights video of turkey towards the end.
http://www.formula1.com/video/?inptC=Tu ... ace%20Edit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anyone wanted the absoulte truth as to why Lewis was slighty down after the race there it is.

I think some of you guys are missing this vital piece of information!!
"if I back off will Jenson try to pass me" to which McLaren said "no"

Lewis was jumped when told Jens would be backing off. Not jens' fault. But lewis was at a disadvantage......and still got the place back.

So much for no team orders huh? It's possible they thought Jenson would not pass from previous save fuel messages they may have given him, but it's pretty clear that Jenson took his shot.

[vaptin]

Andrew Benson has written a blog about it (forgive me if you've already been discussing that.

I understand that, actually, it was a simple misunderstanding, that the two sides of the garage were not telling their drivers the same thing.

Hamilton's engineers had given him a lap-time target to ensure he got to the end of the race; Button's had told him to save fuel but not given him a target.

Just sounds like a misunderstanding, at anyrate I'm not sure Jenson did a lot wrong. He made it to the end of the race, and is fully entitled to try and pass Lewis.

[bud]

Yeah a misunderstanding by the looks of radio communication, But in a way similar to the Redbull situation one car saving fuel the other taking advantage of it.