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[f1ea]

Autosport website said Webber was on fuel saving and Vettel had a lap left at full pace.

As for Lewis he was making no assumptions about Jens' fuel. It came over his radio and was broadcast on BBC "fuel saving mode and that is for BOTH cars"

If the Red Bulls were going into fuel save, then they were going to surrnder their positions. At least Lewis was going to make/try the move. It was either that or run out of fuel in the track... there was n oway the RBs could have lifted off (obviously without knowing Mclaren was going into fuel save also).

Lewis+Jens, again i dont think Lewis was specially dissapointed (ie dissapointed enough to pout about it after the race). But if Jenson pushed and risked running out of fuel... no blame there either way. They raced and didnt take eachother out, i think it was a good fight. Although i dont see a reason for Mc to give Lewis the message that BOTH cars were on fuel save at the same time...

[racechick]

Autosport website said Webber was on fuel saving and Vettel had a lap left at full pace.

As for Lewis he was making no assumptions about Jens' fuel. It came over his radio and was broadcast on BBC "fuel saving mode and that is for BOTH cars"

If the Red Bulls were going into fuel save, then they were going to surrnder their positions. At least Lewis was going to make/try the move. It was either that or run out of fuel in the track... there was n oway the RBs could have lifted off (obviously without knowing Mclaren was going into fuel save also).

Lewis+Jens, again i dont think Lewis was specially dissapointed (ie dissapointed enough to pout about it after the race). But if Jenson pushed and risked running out of fuel... no blame there either way. They raced and didnt take eachother out, i think it was a good fight. Although i dont see a reason for Mc to give Lewis the message that BOTH cars were on fuel save at the same time...

Just heard it again on the reply (its on now) " Ok Lewis we need you to save some fuel, we need you to save fuel, both cars the same"
And the reason lewis will have been told both cars is because its more or less a call to finnish as a one two and not risk the red bull scenario. I think Lewis tuned his back up mmediately Jens tried it on.

And now on the replay Jens has had another call.

[Ineluke]

Seems Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko blames Webber for the collision,i guess he does have a point.

Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko insists that both its Formula 1 team's drivers are treated exactly the same - even though he has publicly blamed Mark Webber for trying to defend his position during his Turkish Grand Prix crash.

Webber and team-mate Sebastian Vettel collided in their fight for the lead at Istanbul – throwing away the team's chances of taking the win, and handing victory to main title rivals McLaren.

But although it has emerged that race leader Webber's position was compromised by having to turn his engine down to save fuel, while Vettel was allowed to attack him at full power, Marko is adamant both men are given a fair and equal chance.

"We are handling our team and both drivers in the same way," insisted Marko. "Vettel was under such pressure and if such a situation comes up – you have to look after the team. We still could have been 1-2."

Marko says Vettel was allowed to attack Webber because there was no option to back him off – as Lewis Hamilton was right behind the Red Bull Racing drivers.

"It wasn't a situation where we were racing each other," said Marko. "We were under enormous pressure from the McLarens – they were much faster on the straights so we had to gain our advantage in the corners.

"He had to attack otherwise he would have got overtaken by Hamilton – it would have been completely different if the McLarens were 10-seconds behind, but that wasn't the case."

Asked for his views on the accident, Marko reckons that Vettel was in the right to turn across the track, even with Webber there, since the German had got his nose ahead.

"He [Vettel] was already ahead, at least two metres ahead, and there was a corner to the left side coming, so he had to go for the line," he said. "He cannot brake on the dirt because for sure he knows what happens.

"But it was unnecessary the whole situation. We will talk with everybody quite clearly to make it not happen again."

[racechick]

Rubbish red Bull, what utter crap!! I feel sorry for Mark. He must feel awful.

Eddie Jordan slating Horner. Vettel clearly being favoured.

[Denthúl]

I can't take many of Helmut Marko's comments seriously. He's blatantly biased towards Vettel, the best driver to emerge from the driver development programme which Marko is in-charge of...

[f1ea]

Just heard it again on the reply (its on now) " Ok Lewis we need you to save some fuel, we need you to save fuel, both cars the same"
And the reason lewis will have been told both cars is because its more or less a call to finnish as a one two and not risk the red bull scenario. I think Lewis tuned his back up mmediately Jens tried it on.

And now on the replay Jens has had another call.

Gee. I know what you mean... but really i dont get it.
I strongly doubt Jenson's fuel levels were as low as Lewis; and yes it was important to let Lewis know Jenson was also saving fuel... but.... I dont get it. Why would Mclaren have to go an extra step into letting Lewis know Jenson was also low on fuel and needed to save some, when it was clear Jenson was closing up and certainly didnt look like he was saving fuel. If Lewis had to save then he had to save, and if Jenson thought he could take the risk then he could... ah well.

[Hexagram]

Just watched the replay of the race there. Missed it earlier on.

The crash was Vettel's fault, he turned in on Webber.

Red Bull are a pack of w**kers claiming it was Webber's fault by stating there was not enough room given.

The fact remains Vettel turned in to take the racing line as if he had got ahead of Webber. He had only put half his car in front of Webber so naturally Webber is not going to hand Vettel the line into the corner.

[The Ram]

Vettel is the RedBull son! Who is this Mark Webber?! Who is this man? What is he doing leading the race?! Tell that stupid old man to fall back! Now!!

On the Jenson and Lewis thing; I am not even surprised at that opportunistic move on Button's part. I was EXPECTING that man to do that. I saw Hamilton's sector times dropping, dropping... I said to my self.. "ahh he's cruising to the finish, not used to seeing Hamilton do that". Then comes this sneaky, slippery, slimy man at the top of my TV screen coming closer and closer at an alarming rate! I said "what the hell is he doing!" Soon Button was right up on Hamilton he then put his car on the outside of Hamilton, a very good looking move I must say, and lined him self up for the next bend and took hamilton through the S turn. I was shocked that he actually has the boldness to go through with it (beyond my expectations). I said, oh no you didn't Jennny boy! Hamilton.... destroy him!!

To my delight Hamilton took him right away by turn 1.. and left him for dust. That will teach Button and his engineers (and Whitmarsh? hmm).

[myownalias]

Looking at the replays again and hearing Red Bull's comments blaming Mark Webber; maybe Red Bull are pushing for Vettel to be clear #1. Vettel clearly tried to push Mark wide when Webber had already given him sufficient room to make the move into the left hander. I have no doubt that Mark will have had some strong words in the debrief.

[Denthúl]

Some interesting comments from the press conference, to be compared with Vettel's post-race interview with (the very lovely) Lee McKenzie about losing control of the car, then hitting Webber...

Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) Mark, when Sebastian appeared on the left hand side of you, did he first lose the car and then contact you or did you first have contact with the tyres and then you lost the car?

MW: Oh, he lost the car when he hit me.

Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) So before he hit you, he lost the car?

MW: No.

Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?

LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic. It was right ahead of me. No, I got the best view of it obviously but it's the last thing you want to see and fortunately Sebastian is safe but I just saw Sebastian go up the inside and Mark held his line. I don't think he really had much room to move to the right and I don't think there was necessarily a reason for Sebastian to try to move to the right. I think it was unfortunate for them but all I can say is that it was fortunate for us because we've been working hard all year. I think myself and Jenson have deserved to be on the front row for some time and so it was good today.

Hmm.

Additionally, something we didn't get to see was that, though he managed to keep up the good PR image for a while, Webber did let some of his feelings show later on.

Q. (Livio Oricchio – O Estado de Sao Paulo) Mark, was your strategy to keep Vettel inside, not to make him brake before and you keep your position, even if you brake late, he would go straight?

MW: It wasn't my plan to get him on the inside but he got there and I thought OK, I would just stay in the middle, as straight as I can, to make his line as tight as possible into the next corner obviously. And once we got to the braking point, he was obviously in a very strong position, but before we got there he came across to the right and I couldn't react fast enough, because I wasn't at all expecting that at that point, and that's why it happened so fast and there was contact. Of course in Seb's car, it obviously feels very bad for him that I've turned left into him, but I'm pretty confident that there was some drift from his way and then it was a f***ing disaster. So you have the line.

I don't think that this is over and I think if Vettel tries it again in the future, he will get the same treatment from Webber. If he's smart, Vettel won't try it again, because Webber will almost-certainly take a no-nonsense approach to it once more.

[ivey]

I watched the replay and I can't really blame Mark for anything. He held his line and that's that. You can give your position over to your teammate and give him tons of room but they are competitors, they don't give up something for nothing

[Denthúl]

I watched the replay and I can't really blame Mark for anything. He held his line and that's that. You can give your position over to your teammate and give him tons of room but they are competitors, they don't give up something for nothing

It's not like he actually pushed Vettel on to the grass, which would be unfair. He left enough room for Vettel's car, which was more than fair; you aren't required to leave the door open for anyone.

[stonemonkey]

I watched the replay and I can't really blame Mark for anything. He held his line and that's that. You can give your position over to your teammate and give him tons of room but they are competitors, they don't give up something for nothing

It's not like he actually pushed Vettel on to the grass, which would be unfair. He left enough room for Vettel's car, which was more than fair; you aren't required to leave the door open for anyone.

I take it that from the outside this is just a racing incident but internally do the teams not have their own rules for when their drivers are in such situations?

[Denthúl]

I watched the replay and I can't really blame Mark for anything. He held his line and that's that. You can give your position over to your teammate and give him tons of room but they are competitors, they don't give up something for nothing

It's not like he actually pushed Vettel on to the grass, which would be unfair. He left enough room for Vettel's car, which was more than fair; you aren't required to leave the door open for anyone.

I take it that from the outside this is just a racing incident but internally do the teams not have their own rules for when their drivers are in such situations?

Usually. "Leave room", as already mentioned, and "play fair" would be the most likely ones, both of which Webber did. I wouldn't disagree with either of those rules, because of course you have to consider the interest of the teams as well as the drivers, but putting in place a rule that would force a driver to move over when, in fairness, they can still defend their position would just be unfair.

[racechick]

I just cant believe this, its not fair. Im starting to hate Red Bull. All this 'we're party, party fun people' and all the time they're screwing one of their drivers for that snotty kid. Well I dont drink red bull but now i definately wont!