FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[bud]

And I thought soldiers were meant to be disciplined, but it seems those dipsticks who killed the reporters weren't. They should be court martialed and locked away for such incompetence.

Judge not until you have walked in a soldiers shoes and until then all I hear is blah blah blah .

Anyone can judge incompetence when they see it.

[Jabberwocky]

As someone who has been to this place I would like to add some stuff at this point:-

It is not right to kill civilians in war, however who where we fighting? Terrorists are hard to fight because they put there weapon down and they become a civilian.... so who is a civilian and who is a terrorist?

Someone said have a confirmation of a weapon, shoulder TV cameras from a distance could look like anything, I personally would not do another pass if I was suspicios, and that TV camera turned out to be an anti aircraft rocket launcher.

Friendly fire does happen however I am sure if you looked at the number of contacts that happen the percentage is tiny. I know a lot of people think it is an american trait, well I am sure if you multiplied it out by the % of troops on the ground than every country is just as bad as the others.

As for people laughing and joking as they where killing these people, that is normal for military people in this situation. You need to have some emotional detachment from what you are doing otherwise you would never pull the trigger.

Yes these guys made a mistake and killed people that they should not of done. How many operations had these guys done? had they been doing 20 hours days for the last 2 weeks (which is not uncommon for ground trades)

It is better to be trialled by 12 than to be carried by 6.

[racechick]

Well, I'll bow out of this discussion since I never have and never am likely to see combat. I just didnt like hearing it, especially the children bit.

[Jabberwocky]

Well, I'll bow out of this discussion since I never have and never am likely to see combat. I just didnt like hearing it, especially the children bit.

your right it is not a good thing to hear, and to a point I do blame the current media based world. Pre internet no one would of known about it. However how much of this has been pushed onto the internet is to further tarninsh the work that the joint forces are trying to achieve, and to bolstair the anti war movement. I am sure 99% of the troops out there right now would rather not be.

At the end of the day, mistakes happen, and I am sure the aircraft crews would have had a lot of sleepless nights, and heart ache over the whole situation when they had realised there error.

[bud]

Well, I'll bow out of this discussion since I never have and never am likely to see combat. I just didnt like hearing it, especially the children bit.

well if thats the case i think Jabberwocky would have a pretty lonely discussion

Jabberwocky you make some very good points there, though im still not sure on the fact there was RPGs, i sure cant see any nor can i see any AK47s but if there was in that group of people then id accept the actions taken.

Apart from shooting up the rescue van, i mean do the rules of engagement permit killing of enemy medics....? which is basically what the guys in the van were.

[Jabberwocky]

I am in work at the moment so can not see the video.

The rules of engagement in accordance with the geneva(spl) convention (I think it was) says from memory something along the lines that you should not shoot/destroy medicals facilities or pillage/impound medical equipment/drugs.

However, the people you are likely to go to war are people who did not sign the convention, and are the ones likely to torture etc.

Every area of operation have there own rules of engagement that will change with levels to threat etc, and troops will/should know them off by heart.

[Amanda]

Well, I'll bow out of this discussion since I never have and never am likely to see combat. I just didnt like hearing it, especially the children bit.

well if thats the case i think Jabberwocky would have a pretty lonely discussion

Jabberwocky you make some very good points there, though im still not sure on the fact there was RPGs, i sure cant see any nor can i see any AK47s but if there was in that group of people then id accept the actions taken.

Apart from shooting up the rescue van, i mean do the rules of engagement permit killing of enemy medics....? which is basically what the guys in the van were.

If you check a few pages back I posted the report which shows the photos taken from the scene. There were AK-47s and RPGs at the scene and images taken from the video footage show several men carrying those weapons. After seeing those photos it's much easier to spot the weapons on the video.

[What's Burning?]

It is difficult to watch that video and not reflect on all of the things that are wrong with humanity. It is clear from the video as sickening as it is, that there was no intent to have civilian casualties, however it's also clear that some of the men involved were eager to kill. Like a Pit Bull, trained to kill and eager to chalk one of for their personal crusade. It was mentioned before that a good portion of people that join the military join for the wrong reasons. Even having an equipment manufacturer engraving Bible verses into sniper scopes. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2431965/posts

In the US we have a subversive far right that today more than ever is bubbling over.

My hopes is that this bubbling over is a panicked fervor because they now see themselves for the first time in a minority status. It has to do with the fact that we have a new president, and a new ideal that is leading this country in the right global direction. Sadly thought I know some people watching this video will only see more of what they already want to see whether it's another example of Americans doing what they do, oppressing any country that doesn't fall in line, or radical Muslims getting what they deserve for their hatred to all things western. The truth is far from either of those extreme viewpoints.

The problem is that humanity is quick to condemn wrongful acts perpetrated on their own and quick to excuse wrongful acts when they're the ones doing the perpetrating. The United States will be out of Iraq next year, it can't come soon enough. I just hope that Iraq's people can make a country that's viable with a positive global direction. I fear that won't be the case.

The world is full of "leaders" that were horrible mistakes, we had George Bush, there is Chavez, Ahmadinejad Berlusconi... as least now we've gotten rid of ours.

[What's Burning?]

Minor correction... maybe Berlusconi is more of an embarrassment than a horrible mistake.

[Gaz]

I i'd say as a lamen that they broke the rules of engagment by attacking the mini-van

They did not check for weapons and none were seen thefore it was no threat.

[texasmr2]

It is difficult to watch that video and not reflect on all of the things that are wrong with humanity. It is clear from the video as sickening as it is, that there was no intent to have civilian casualties, however it's also clear that some of the men involved were eager to kill. Like a Pit Bull, trained to kill and eager to chalk one of for their personal crusade. It was mentioned before that a good portion of people that join the military join for the wrong reasons. Even having an equipment manufacturer engraving Bible verses into sniper scopes. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2431965/posts

In the US we have a subversive far right that today more than ever is bubbling over.

My hopes is that this bubbling over is a panicked fervor because they now see themselves for the first time in a minority status. It has to do with the fact that we have a new president, and a new ideal that is leading this country in the right global direction. Sadly thought I know some people watching this video will only see more of what they already want to see whether it's another example of Americans doing what they do, oppressing any country that doesn't fall in line, or radical Muslims getting what they deserve for their hatred to all things western. The truth is far from either of those extreme viewpoints.

The problem is that humanity is quick to condemn wrongful acts perpetrated on their own and quick to excuse wrongful acts when they're the ones doing the perpetrating. The United States will be out of Iraq next year, it can't come soon enough. I just hope that Iraq's people can make a country that's viable with a positive global direction. I fear that won't be the case.

The world is full of "leaders" that were horrible mistakes, we had George Bush, there is Chavez, Ahmadinejad Berlusconi... as least now we've gotten rid of ours.

Good post .