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Just as it says...
#194853
Looks genuine to me.

It's disgusting and disturbing footage but also not entirely unexpected. Things like this always happen in war, and while that does not mean that it's acceptable or justifiable, it doesn't particularly shock me. If two Reuters news staff members had not been killed we'd simply never have seen the footage.
#194855
Disturbing footage, doesn't bode well for the USAs image!

I'm starting to doubt the source a little bit, and kinda starting to think this is just another anti-american video. Hopefully more information comes out.


you rekn it's a fake video?


pentagon has confimd it's genuine
#194858
That was unbelievable. Ok war is war but those guys were enjoying that, they were laughing. No remorse that children were hurt, just shift the blame to parents for taking them into a battle. Unbelievable. made me feel sick.
#194869
I don't think Gregg feels this was OK. I think maybe he didn't watch it and had a predisposition about Gaz and thought it was something else.

Too many men join the US military and go to Iraq for the wrong reasons. The people as a whole give them honor but many are just plain bad people who like excuses to kill. Others are good people who are misled into thinking this is an honorable cause. There's no way this occupation helps the American people. Ok it helps the American people that own oil companies. There's no way this occupation preserves the so called freedom in the US. Yes it's great they deposed a cruel dictator and got them a better yet useless government but why is it the US appointed itself to do that for them? This isn't a war, it's an illegal invasion. They think they need to be there to kill "insurgents". The only reason there are "insurgents" who are a threat to them is because US is in occupation there. Jalal Talibani needs to put his foot down and start prosecuting people for stuff like this, and stand up to the US and tell them to stop killing the people. He needs go get his own damn army. Sadly though, no Iraqi president will ever be more than a big oil puppet. The very most the US should be doing is whatever the Iraqi army would be doing, that is protecting the people from terrorists, just in an "adding manpower" sort of way, since Iraq doesn't have the manpower.
You can hear the guy fabricating reasons for permission to shoot. He doesn't care who it is, he wants to shoot them. He appears to me that he thinks all arab citizens should be killed.
#194879
Disturbing footage, doesn't bode well for the USAs image!

I'm starting to doubt the source a little bit, and kinda starting to think this is just another anti-american video. Hopefully more information comes out.


you rekn it's a fake video?



Nope, what I'm saying is that a portion of those killed were in fact insurgents. Yeah its terrible that some journalists were killed, but hey, what do you expect when you hang around with insurgents in a warzone? How come I don't see an outcry over journalists hanging with American and Allied soldiers getting killed by Iraqi insurgents?


That was unbelievable. Ok war is war but those guys were enjoying that, they were laughing. No remorse that children were hurt, just shift the blame to parents for taking them into a battle. Unbelievable. made me feel sick.


Errr hello? That's how all soldiers talk. Spend too much time dwelling on combat stress reaction, that pretty much makes you ineffective. Why do you think SAS, and other military training is so tough? It's to get them used to the sights and sounds of war.

And yes it's terrible that kids were injured, but how do you expect the pilot to see kids in a mini-van? Guarantee you that had they known kids were in the van, they wouldn't have fired.
#194880
Disturbing footage, doesn't bode well for the USAs image!

I'm starting to doubt the source a little bit, and kinda starting to think this is just another anti-american video. Hopefully more information comes out.


you rekn it's a fake video?



Nope, what I'm saying is that a portion of those killed were in fact insurgents. Yeah its terrible that some journalists were killed, but hey, what do you expect when you hang around with insurgents in a warzone? How come I don't see an outcry over journalists hanging with American and Allied soldiers getting killed by Iraqi insurgents?


That was unbelievable. Ok war is war but those guys were enjoying that, they were laughing. No remorse that children were hurt, just shift the blame to parents for taking them into a battle. Unbelievable. made me feel sick.


Errr hello? That's how all soldiers talk. Spend too much time dwelling on combat stress reaction, that pretty much makes you ineffective. Why do you think SAS, and other military training is so tough? It's to get them used to the sights and sounds of war.

And yes it's terrible that kids were injured, but how do you expect the pilot to see kids in a mini-van? Guarantee you that had they known kids were in the van, they wouldn't have fired.


What soldiers all laugh as they pick off civilians as though they're on a play station game? I thought soldiers protected civilians.
And they werent exactly in the heat of battle, they had plenty of time to check things out properly, they were under no personal threat.
And the lack of remorse about shooting the children?
#194881
Disturbing footage, doesn't bode well for the USAs image!

I'm starting to doubt the source a little bit, and kinda starting to think this is just another anti-american video. Hopefully more information comes out.


you rekn it's a fake video?



Nope, what I'm saying is that a portion of those killed were in fact insurgents. Yeah its terrible that some journalists were killed, but hey, what do you expect when you hang around with insurgents in a warzone? How come I don't see an outcry over journalists hanging with American and Allied soldiers getting killed by Iraqi insurgents?


That was unbelievable. Ok war is war but those guys were enjoying that, they were laughing. No remorse that children were hurt, just shift the blame to parents for taking them into a battle. Unbelievable. made me feel sick.


Errr hello? That's how all soldiers talk. Spend too much time dwelling on combat stress reaction, that pretty much makes you ineffective. Why do you think SAS, and other military training is so tough? It's to get them used to the sights and sounds of war.

And yes it's terrible that kids were injured, but how do you expect the pilot to see kids in a mini-van? Guarantee you that had they known kids were in the van, they wouldn't have fired.


What soldiers all laugh as they pick off civilians as though they're on a play station game? I thought soldiers protected civilians.
And they werent exactly in the heat of battle, they had plenty of time to check things out properly, they were under no personal threat.
And the lack of remorse about killing the children?


I think it’s easy to watch that video and condemn those men, especially when you hear the final, rather sickening, comment about bringing children to a battle.

However, I do think it’s necessary to consider the situation they were in and according to the report:
- “Bravo Company had been in near continuous contact since dawn, the pilots were looking primarily for armed insurgents”
- “there was no information leading anyone to believe or even suspect that noncombatants were in the area”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 soldiers were within 100 meters of the location of a group of armed insurgents and two individuals carrying cameras when Apache helicopters engaged”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 infantry had been under sporadic small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire since OPERATION ILAAJ began at dawn on the morning of 12th of July. The company had a mission of clearing their sector and looking for weapons caches. Two Apache helicopters from the 1st Cavalry Division’s Aviation Brigade (Call signs “Crazyhorse 18” and “Crazyhorse 19”) were in direct support to the ground manoeuvre force and were monitoring the Bravo Company radio frequency”.

In other words, it was a battle zone. Ground forces had begun an operation to clear that sector and had been exchanging fire with insurgents since dawn; the ground troops were within 100m of the group of men in the video footage. The helicopters were there to look out for armed men and communicate back to the ground troops (Bravo Company). They were specifically looking for “small arms and rocket propelled grenades” and some of the men were carrying AK-47s and RPGs.

It’s easy to watch that footage now, knowing that the man behind the wall is holding a camera, and say they were trigger happy. But at the time, in the middle of a battle, believing that the area was free of noncombatants, I can understand how such a mistake is made. They identified the cameras as “weapons” but they also clearly identified several “AK-47s” (3:39 on video).

The lack of remorse I do find unsavory.
#194884
I think it’s easy to watch that video and condemn those men, especially when you hear the final, rather sickening, comment about bringing children to a battle.

However, I do think it’s necessary to consider the situation they were in and according to the report:
- “Bravo Company had been in near continuous contact since dawn, the pilots were looking primarily for armed insurgents”
- “there was no information leading anyone to believe or even suspect that noncombatants were in the area”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 soldiers were within 100 meters of the location of a group of armed insurgents and two individuals carrying cameras when Apache helicopters engaged”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 infantry had been under sporadic small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire since OPERATION ILAAJ began at dawn on the morning of 12th of July. The company had a mission of clearing their sector and looking for weapons caches. Two Apache helicopters from the 1st Cavalry Division’s Aviation Brigade (Call signs “Crazyhorse 18” and “Crazyhorse 19”) were in direct support to the ground manoeuvre force and were monitoring the Bravo Company radio frequency”.

In other words, it was a battle zone. Ground forces had begun an operation to clear that sector and had been exchanging fire with insurgents since dawn; the ground troops were within 100m of the group of men in the video footage. The helicopters were there to look out for armed men and communicate back to the ground troops (Bravo Company). They were specifically looking for “small arms and rocket propelled grenades” and some of the men were carrying AK-47s and RPGs.

It’s easy to watch that footage now, knowing that the man behind the wall is holding a camera, and say they were trigger happy. But at the time, in the middle of a battle, believing that the area was free of noncombatants, I can understand how such a mistake is made. They identified the cameras as “weapons” but they also clearly identified several “AK-47s” (3:39 on video).

The lack of remorse I do find unsavory.



I wish I could post the pictures in the report on here. You can clearly see AKs and RPGs in the hands of some of the men, while the pilots obviously mistaken some of the cameras as weapons (which you have to admit that they do look like weapons, especially when the long range camera lens sticks out around the corner). This is what's terrible with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, because the insurgents have perfected the art of hiding in civilian crowds.
#194891
I appreciate what your saying Amanda, and i agree its very easy in the confusion that takes place in a battlefield to shoot first and ask questions later for fear of being attacked yourself.

For example the pilot does sound concered when he see's what he thinks is a RPG as that is potential threat to the helicoptor.

Also you wouldn't want it on your conscience if you didn't react and your fellow soilders were injured.

However being a soilder is a profesion that carries great responsiblity due to the nature of the job. And these soilders were being very unprofesional and thats what annoys me more than anything.

And it annoys me with these things how it seams to get covered up and brushed aside.
#194894
I think it’s easy to watch that video and condemn those men, especially when you hear the final, rather sickening, comment about bringing children to a battle.

However, I do think it’s necessary to consider the situation they were in and according to the report:
- “Bravo Company had been in near continuous contact since dawn, the pilots were looking primarily for armed insurgents”
- “there was no information leading anyone to believe or even suspect that noncombatants were in the area”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 soldiers were within 100 meters of the location of a group of armed insurgents and two individuals carrying cameras when Apache helicopters engaged”
- “Bravo Company 2-16 infantry had been under sporadic small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire since OPERATION ILAAJ began at dawn on the morning of 12th of July. The company had a mission of clearing their sector and looking for weapons caches. Two Apache helicopters from the 1st Cavalry Division’s Aviation Brigade (Call signs “Crazyhorse 18” and “Crazyhorse 19”) were in direct support to the ground manoeuvre force and were monitoring the Bravo Company radio frequency”.

In other words, it was a battle zone. Ground forces had begun an operation to clear that sector and had been exchanging fire with insurgents since dawn; the ground troops were within 100m of the group of men in the video footage. The helicopters were there to look out for armed men and communicate back to the ground troops (Bravo Company). They were specifically looking for “small arms and rocket propelled grenades” and some of the men were carrying AK-47s and RPGs.

It’s easy to watch that footage now, knowing that the man behind the wall is holding a camera, and say they were trigger happy. But at the time, in the middle of a battle, believing that the area was free of noncombatants, I can understand how such a mistake is made. They identified the cameras as “weapons” but they also clearly identified several “AK-47s” (3:39 on video).

The lack of remorse I do find unsavory.



I wish I could post the pictures in the report on here. You can clearly see AKs and RPGs in the hands of some of the men, while the pilots obviously mistaken some of the cameras as weapons (which you have to admit that they do look like weapons, especially when the long range camera lens sticks out around the corner). This is what's terrible with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, because the insurgents have perfected the art of hiding in civilian crowds.


I actually think you can see it just as clearly on the video, I definitely saw a few AK-47s but I couldn't see any RPGs. They did find several at the scene though.

When I first saw the footage I was pretty appalled but if I didn't know that the man behind the wall was holding a camera, if I thought the area was free of noncombatants, then I'd assume he was aiming an RPG at me.

I appreciate what your saying Amanda, and i agree its very easy in the confusion that takes place in a battlefield to shoot first and ask questions later for fear of being attacked yourself.

For example the pilot does sound concered when he see's what he thinks is a RPG as that is potential threat to the helicoptor.

Also you wouldn't want it on your conscience if you didn't react and your fellow soilders were injured.

However being a soilder is a profesion that carries great responsiblity due to the nature of the job. And these soilders were being very unprofesional and thats what annoys me more than anything.

And it annoys me with these things how it seams to get covered up and brushed aside.


What do you mean by unprofessional?

I agree about the cover up, but I can kind of understand that as well. Everybody sees the footage and hears that dialogue and automatically says "cowboys", of course the military don't want us to see it.
#194902
The extremely unfortunate fact of war is that innocent people will die. That's what has happened in every single war in history. Seriously. It sucks but it's the truth.
This video is disgusting but this is not what United States soldiers are like as a whole and I still have respect for them.

Oh, and it would seem more professional/authentic if the creator of the video knew how to spell the word "sergeant". :rolleyes:
#194904
I actually think you can see it just as clearly on the video, I definitely saw a few AK-47s but I couldn't see any RPGs. They did find several at the scene though.

When I first saw the footage I was pretty appalled but if I didn't know that the man behind the wall was holding a camera, if I thought the area was free of noncombatants, then I'd assume he was aiming an RPG at me.


Exactly. I would've assumed he was hiding behind the corner getting ready to take a shot at me.

I think people can't get passed the children getting wounded in the mini-van. Most people don't know that insurgents use un-marked vehicles like van to pick/up drop off enemy combatants and to plant IEDs, which is what the pilots assumed. However, in this case it happened to be a mistake.
#194905
I think the RPG is a Tripod for a Camera.

As for the AK47's how do we know the armed individuals weren't hired secuirty for the Jornalists?

On the profesional side, they are not acting how i would expect a profesional soilder to act.

They seam to be far to releax and jovial for what they doing and far far to eagar to shoot, especialy with mini van.

And this is how some freindly fire incidents or attacks on civilians happen when soilders are too relaxed and easy going about the act of taking a life.

If it was me the very last thing i would want to do is kill an innocent person, and these guys seamed under very little pressure (before they spotted what looked like a RPG) Also it wasn't as if the "insurgents" were firing upon US soilders.

I belive they had made there decision the moment they saw these people.

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