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[racechick]

You said it all. I would make a prayer to your post, but there's no prayer smiley on this forum. Most people forget that most drivers don't have Hamilton's luck, he was put in the fastest car on the grid right away... yes, he delivered, so he's good, but most drivers were never given such a chance.

He earnt that drive and he delivered big time.Hamilton is no rich kid, it was sheer talent and hard work on both lewis and his fathers part that got him where he is

...I think you might have inferred sentiment that simply wasn't there racechick...Nobody called him a rich kid or said he didn't earn it.

In fact, Hansy even said:

"he delivered, so he's good"

Also said he was lucky. It was not luck.

Yes it was, you're just misinterpreting what "luck" is. Luck provides opportunities, skill makes use of them.

Hardwork provides opportunities and skill maximises them.

Now you're just being pigheaded. You've decided there was a slight at Lewis and so your refusing to accept that there wasn't one. Nobody gets anywhere without "luck". Lewis was lucky in that he was able to ask Ron for help, and Ron decided to give it, and Lewis took that opportunity and ran with it through hard work and skill. Jenson Button, Anthony Davidson and the vast majority of racing drivers never get a chance like that. It was luck. It doesn't belittle Lewis's talent or accomplishments to say it was lucky, but it sure as hell belittles all the other drivers' talent and accomplishments to say it absolutely wasn't. Lewis is a fantastic driver racechick, but not everybody gets the same chances to shine that he has had. Accepting that takes nothing away from him.

Im not being pigheaded.
Yes he asked Ron for help (good idea)
He was told call me in 5 or 6 years, we'll have a look then. (he did, with excellent results behind him so he was taken on the Mclaren programme anlong with other talented youngsters including Roseberg)
Excellent results continued so he stayed on the programme(Roseberg didnt)
And in every category he competed in the excellent results continued.

Sometimes you make your own luck.

Im not saying good or bad luck doesnt exist, course it does-the puncture that ruins a race, the botched pitstop, everyone has their fair share of that-good and bad. But the cream of the drivers rising to the top.....thats not luck.

[antoniob]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

[racechick]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

[antoniob]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

[racechick]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

[antoniob]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

[darwin dali]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

Watch it buddy

[Gaz]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

[antoniob]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

Watch it buddy

DD you cant interfere with science. it is not meant to insult anybody, however a answer and cure needs to be found for the disease we have discovered and if left uncontrolled it could affect more people. mclarenitis is dangerous !!

[darwin dali]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

Watch it buddy

DD you cant interfere with science. it is not meant to insult anybody, however a answer and cure needs to be found for the disease we have discovered and if left uncontrolled it could affect more people. mclarenitis is dangerous !!

And I'm just saying, you know what's coming if you continue on this path

[antoniob]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

Watch it buddy

DD you cant interfere with science. it is not meant to insult anybody, however a answer and cure needs to be found for the disease we have discovered and if left uncontrolled it could affect more people. mclarenitis is dangerous !!

And I'm just saying, you know what's coming if you continue on this path

ok .. let it be known you stood in the way of a cure for mclarenitis. if it takes over the world, its on your head !!!

[Jensonb]

Im not being pigheaded.
Yes he asked Ron for help (good idea)
He was told call me in 5 or 6 years, we'll have a look then. (he did, with excellent results behind him so he was taken on the Mclaren programme anlong with other talented youngsters including Roseberg)
Excellent results continued so he stayed on the programme(Roseberg didnt)
And in every category he competed in the excellent results continued.

Sometimes you make your own luck.

Im not saying good or bad luck doesnt exist, course it does-the puncture that ruins a race, the botched pitstop, everyone has their fair share of that-good and bad. But the cream of the drivers rising to the top.....thats not luck.

You really don't get it, do you? You can't just be talented and get to the top automatically. It simply isn't true. It takes more than skill to reach the top in motorsport. Lewis got help to reach F1. Sure, he asked for it, but not everyone gets that opportunity. That's luck. Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of the best drivers slip through the cracks? The whole point of my post back there about Button is that drivers with enormous talent sometimes hit a brick wall with their careers through lack of opportunity, or get stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time (Or the right place, but the wrong time). That never happened to Lewis. That's unbelievably rare. So he was lucky. How can you not get that the fact he was lucky does not mean he's not one of the best? How is it that despite the fact I've already explained that the fact he was lucky takes nothing away from his skill (Because he made absolutely the best of all the opportunities he was presented with), but saying the opposite is supremely insulting to those who didn't get those chances to shine you can continue to stubbornly protest that Lewis was simply intangibly better the whole time? It's preposterous and mean-spirited - and I'd bet he would call BS on it.

This is the exact same problem I had with that guy earlier. Luck and skill are not mutually exclusive, and you get nowhere with only one of them. You have to have both, simultaneously, to be a success. If ability alone were enough, more poor kids would get great results in school. If luck alone were enough, bozos like Crashajima would be champions. Lewis is currently the outright fastest F1 driver, and he was phenomenally talented his whole career. He was also lucky. He met Ron, Ron responded well, he got decent drives in the higher categories. So he made it here to show us how fast he was.

Two comparisons. Crashajima. No apparent F1 talent. Made it here because of luck - Toyota magic-carpeted him in. He went nowhere because he had the luck and not enough talent to make use of it.

Button. Brilliant driver. Made his own way through the lower categories with smaller teams, nearly fell off the ladder when the money ran out. Made it into F1 thanks to a seemingly lucky break, but it was a bit too soon. From then on, got held back by bad timing and not a lot of luck (Even in 2004, bad luck cost him at least 1 win). Finally the good luck came back into full force when he was Honda's man, which made him Brawn's man. Now he's the champion because skill & luck combined.

Lewis. Brilliant driver. He and his dad got help from Ron Dennis & the McLaren Driver Development Programme. Went through the lower categories with good teams, made best use of them, putting his huge talent on show. Entered F1 when he was ready, straight into a top team. He won the title the very next year.

You mentioned that Rosberg fell out of the same programme. Yeah, he did. He was a bit like Nakajima - all the luck, not enough talent. Lewis is far and away a better driver. But that luck still got Nico into F1. What happened for him? Not a lot compared to Lewis or (Later in the career) Jenson. More than Nakajima though, because Rosberg is far and away better at F1 than Kazuki.

It takes talent and luck combined to make it to the top, as these examples make clear.

[Gaz]

racechick I certainly agree with on making your own luck. Shumi is very good at it as you very well know. but let us not argue about old news. 2008 is long gone. things could so easily have turned out very differently but as luck would have it, it did not. maybe its time we get a cure for that defensive mclaren fever you have.

Its Lewis fever, McLaren is a very pleasant by-product

hehe.. you have all the symptoms. arrogancy, denial,argumentive,the list go on. we will have to deal with it at some point.

All those symptoms and you didnt even get the diagnosis right

I think we call call it clinical stupidity but i will confirm after more tests

Watch it buddy

DD you cant interfere with science. it is not meant to insult anybody, however a answer and cure needs to be found for the disease we have discovered and if left uncontrolled it could affect more people. mclarenitis is dangerous !!

And I'm just saying, you know what's coming if you continue on this path

ok .. let it be known you stood in the way of a cure for mclarenitis. if it takes over the world, its on your head !!!

Says the guy with a Schumi poster on his wall.

pot kettle black me thinks fella.

[antoniob]

tbh gaz I do not have a ms poster at all, anywhere. I have one of rubens and one of massa. no schumi. all of them is pics of 2009. anything older gets dumped. nothing a year old is worth having. I bet you still have major pics of our 2008 WDC. I had one but burned it new years day

[racechick]

Im not being pigheaded.
Yes he asked Ron for help (good idea)
He was told call me in 5 or 6 years, we'll have a look then. (he did, with excellent results behind him so he was taken on the Mclaren programme anlong with other talented youngsters including Roseberg)
Excellent results continued so he stayed on the programme(Roseberg didnt)
And in every category he competed in the excellent results continued.

Sometimes you make your own luck.

Im not saying good or bad luck doesnt exist, course it does-the puncture that ruins a race, the botched pitstop, everyone has their fair share of that-good and bad. But the cream of the drivers rising to the top.....thats not luck.

You really don't get it, do you? You can't just be talented and get to the top automatically. It simply isn't true. It takes more than skill to reach the top in motorsport. Lewis got help to reach F1. Sure, he asked for it, but not everyone gets that opportunity. That's luck. Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of the best drivers slip through the cracks? The whole point of my post back there about Button is that drivers with enormous talent sometimes hit a brick wall with their careers through lack of opportunity, or get stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time (Or the right place, but the wrong time). That never happened to Lewis. That's unbelievably rare. So he was lucky. How can you not get that the fact he was lucky does not mean he's not one of the best? How is it that despite the fact I've already explained that the fact he was lucky takes nothing away from his skill (Because he made absolutely the best of all the opportunities he was presented with), but saying the opposite is supremely insulting to those who didn't get those chances to shine you can continue to stubbornly protest that Lewis was simply intangibly better the whole time? It's preposterous and mean-spirited - and I'd bet he would call BS on it.

This is the exact same problem I had with that guy earlier. Luck and skill are not mutually exclusive, and you get nowhere with only one of them. You have to have both, simultaneously, to be a success. If ability alone were enough, more poor kids would get great results in school. If luck alone were enough, bozos like Crashajima would be champions. Lewis is currently the outright fastest F1 driver, and he was phenomenally talented his whole career. He was also lucky. He met Ron, Ron responded well, he got decent drives in the higher categories. So he made it here to show us how fast he was.

Two comparisons. Crashajima. No apparent F1 talent. Made it here because of luck - Toyota magic-carpeted him in. He went nowhere because he had the luck and not enough talent to make use of it.

Button. Brilliant driver. Made his own way through the lower categories with smaller teams, nearly fell off the ladder when the money ran out. Made it into F1 thanks to a seemingly lucky break, but it was a bit too soon. From then on, got held back by bad timing and not a lot of luck (Even in 2004, bad luck cost him at least 1 win). Finally the good luck came back into full force when he was Honda's man, which made him Brawn's man. Now he's the champion because skill & luck combined.

Lewis. Brilliant driver. He and his dad got help from Ron Dennis & the McLaren Driver Development Programme. Went through the lower categories with good teams, made best use of them, putting his huge talent on show. Entered F1 when he was ready, straight into a top team. He won the title the very next year.

You mentioned that Rosberg fell out of the same programme. Yeah, he did. He was a bit like Nakajima - all the luck, not enough talent. Lewis is far and away a better driver. But that luck still got Nico into F1. What happened for him? Not a lot compared to Lewis or (Later in the career) Jenson. More than Nakajima though, because Rosberg is far and away better at F1 than Kazuki.

It takes talent and luck combined to make it to the top, as these examples make clear.

Jeez what's eating you tonight?? I'd hate to catch you in a bad mood. I was actually singing Jens' praises earler on.
I know about bad luck, if you want to hear real bad luck read Tommy Byrne's book 'Crashed and burned' he was a talent to compare with Senna.I accept some talented drivers dont get a break.