- 22 Nov 09, 19:31#171609
I can accept that, my knowledge the Americas isn't that great but I still believe that the dominant native language of the area should be spoken by immigrants and those who choose not to learn the native language end up isolating themselves into their own little national groups, this is a problem back home in the United Kingdom as well; we have Polish, Indian, and Asian people who isolate themselves within their own national communities and have no reason to speak English. For example before I moved to the US I lived in a shared house with five others, when I moved into that house in 2007 it was all English speakers (although not all English people), in the end when I moved out I was the odd one out as everyone else in the house were Poles and refused to speak English so I felt like an outsider in my own home which was the primary reason I moved out, I know they could speak English as they talked with the landlord in English but refused to talk with me in English, I'd be stood there in the kitchen while everyone was talking in Polish. When I visited Poland I made an effort to speak Polish even if it wasn't that great, I think they appreciated the effort I made to fit in with the locals. To summarise I believe that immigrants should use the native language in public; at minimum attempt to speak the dominant language to maximize integration possibilities, immigrants should have to integrate with the local community not the other way around. Cultural diversity is great but having segregated sections of society of different faiths and/or nationalities isn't an integrated society which is the way it is in many English speaking countries.
We all know the video is propaganda and grossly misleading but it is based upon facts, I read on the BBC website about the same thing as I would class the BBC as reliable source. I would say that only a small percentage of immigrants integrate into local society even after generations, maybe a small percentage break away from traditions taught by their parents but most stick with their own respective traditions. For example I know of a number of people who are second and third generation Indian immigrants and they still use Indian as their primary language in public, that's hardly integrating is it? It's a highly divisive issue, I'm all for having a multi-cultural society but we need tighter controls to maintain that cultural diversity.
Although I agree with you, there is nothing wrong with speaking a different language in public, as long as you can speak and are prepared to speak the one that is spoken by the people in the country you are in. For example in Australia there are many Italians, Greeks, Chinese, Croats, Vietmanese just to name a few. They all speak their languages but all speak English. In fact the kids of the immigrants who speak both the language of their parents and English all speak English better and usually speak English among themselves and the language of the parents only with the parents and other oldies. Thus I would say they have integrated well because they speak English and it is always an advantage to know a second or third language. In my case, I grew up in Italy and spoke Italian (Like one should) but spoke mostly Croatian to my mum and both Italian and Slovenian to my dad. And I did so in public as well. I do not see anything wrong with this as long as you learn and accept the language of the one that is spoken in the country you are in. (Although I admit that when I was younger I did feel embarrassed when not speaking Italian in public and thus avoided not speaking Italian by always responsing back in Italian).
We'll have to agree to disagree; I don't believe that immigrants are integrating if they still use their native language as their primary language. I'm not saying that their traditions and native language shouldn't be spoken in private or taught to their children but when in public they should speak the language of the host country. In some cases, which is a problem here in the US; with the Hispanic community there are many that have lived here in the US for many years and still don't know a lick of English, businesses often employ people that are multi-lingual to cater for non-English speakers, is that right that the natives should have to learn a new language in their own country to cater for immigrants? What ultimately happens is no integration and each nationality stick to their own little group, even opening shops to cater for their specific immigrant community. If I were to move to a non-English speaking country I would speak the native language in public or at least make the best attempt to speak it rather than defaulting to my native language, plus speaking the language more would have me become more fluent in the language rather than a little bit of local interaction when I need to.
I don't disagree with you in most points, BUT to cite the US and their Hispanic population in this context and to further your argument is very dodgy. When you study the history of the US, you'd see that vast stretches of the southwest and west were first settled by Spanish speaking people (and was part of Mexico), so the Spanish language has been around longer than English. I would consider the US a bilingual country (see Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.) and we all know how such countries deal with that fact, i.e., in most it is the law to protect the minority language, to teach it as the first 'foreign' language in school, label everything bilingually (food items, e.g.), have official government forms in both languages and so on. The US is just a bit behind thanks to all the rednecks that go on the barricades to make English the only official language
I can accept that, my knowledge the Americas isn't that great but I still believe that the dominant native language of the area should be spoken by immigrants and those who choose not to learn the native language end up isolating themselves into their own little national groups, this is a problem back home in the United Kingdom as well; we have Polish, Indian, and Asian people who isolate themselves within their own national communities and have no reason to speak English. For example before I moved to the US I lived in a shared house with five others, when I moved into that house in 2007 it was all English speakers (although not all English people), in the end when I moved out I was the odd one out as everyone else in the house were Poles and refused to speak English so I felt like an outsider in my own home which was the primary reason I moved out, I know they could speak English as they talked with the landlord in English but refused to talk with me in English, I'd be stood there in the kitchen while everyone was talking in Polish. When I visited Poland I made an effort to speak Polish even if it wasn't that great, I think they appreciated the effort I made to fit in with the locals. To summarise I believe that immigrants should use the native language in public; at minimum attempt to speak the dominant language to maximize integration possibilities, immigrants should have to integrate with the local community not the other way around. Cultural diversity is great but having segregated sections of society of different faiths and/or nationalities isn't an integrated society which is the way it is in many English speaking countries.
myownalias • The Englishman in Kansas • Twitter: @myownalias
Btw I still have the nice "I" with the oval around it on my car where I live now in Slovenija. No one seems to be bothered about it there though.
