FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[bud]

I think immigration numbers should be lowered to protect western culture! can't imagine westerners being allowed into Muslim countries and demanding it to be secular!

But these people aren't so bright to look at like that.

[racechick]

It's just in natural! It's the **** of the natural world as far as I'm concerned!

I have a child in my class with lesbian parents. she has two mummies. they're excellent parents and the child is well adjusted. She has plenty of male role models in her life and a boyfriend!(she's 5)

[Jensonb]

I think immigration numbers should be lowered to protect western culture! can't imagine westerners being allowed into Muslim countries and demanding it to be secular!

Are you suggesting we regress to petty nationalism just because they're behind us on the progressive scale? I'd like to think we're wiser than that.

[bud]

Nothing petty about protecting ones culture! I am fed up of the pc crap in schools about not being able to celebrate Christmas just to apease the minorities! Well I'm sorry you moved here knowing this is our way so deal with it or go back home!

[Jabberwocky]

Because of the human rights act, you can not stop people affecting your culture through freedom of speech etc.

[Gilles 27]

I love these threads, you learn so much about members of the forum...

[Jensonb]

Nothing petty about protecting ones culture! I am fed up of the pc crap in schools about not being able to celebrate Christmas just to apease the minorities! Well I'm sorry you moved here knowing this is our way so deal with it or go back home!

Yeah, but there's a difference between rejecting PC (I do as well) and saying "close the borders". I don't want to close the borders, or give up our culture. I like my culture. I don't see why our two cultures can't co-exist. Why not make a deal, we won't criticise their mysogyny and immoral arranged marriages or whatever, and they won't complain about Christmas - I'm an atheist and I still think Christmas is the most awesome time of the year.

[vaptin]

Culture will change over time anyway,

anyway, as jensonb has said, lowering immigration and protecting your own culture isn't the same thing, just go out and celbrate it if you wish. Are you telling me if there were no foreign cultures in the uk that every st George's day there would be mass celebration on the streets?

Is Christmas really being ignored, or celebrated less since mass immigration?

Was remembrance Sunday ignored?

Does the state have the right to try and determine the outcome of culture (and this also goes the other way through discouraging the native culture) or is the states job simply to ensure there is no unreasonable conflict (again this goes both ways). Surely the latter would mean advocating a secular state?

[bud]

See vaptin that pisses me off, Will the Muslim countries ever become secular? No so why should we!

[darwin dali]

See vaptin that pisses me off, Will the Muslim countries ever become secular? No so why should we!

Because it's the right and rational thing to do and will happen anyway, just give it some time and most countries that have any resemblance of progressiveness will be secular.

[myownalias]

I think immigration numbers should be lowered to protect western culture! can't imagine westerners being allowed into Muslim countries and demanding it to be secular!

I do agree to a certain extent, I can't speak for Australia but the UK government are the people killing British culture telling the citizens of the United Kingdom that they can't practice traditional British things like hanging out national flags when our national teams are playing. Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep is another example... and if you work for the government you can't show any sort of patriotism. My opinion is that immigration needs to be controlled and the British people shouldn't have to change just in case they might offend an immigrant!

[Juliet P]

After watching this make up your own minds. Good be a reality or just propaganda. But either way I see it as an immenent threat to Europe and the US/Canada.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIF ... -fresh+div

I do not like what this says. If i were a head of state I would act immiediatly to stop this. And believe me dispite what it says there are ways to stop this. Although I will refain from the obvious ways to do so on this forum......

What aload of rubbish

there are 50milion Muslims in Europe.

The Population of Europe is 730million so that means there is 680million non Muslims.

Were all Human anyway if they want to believe there's a god call Alllah that's fine with me long as they don't go preaching it to me or it dosn't affect my life in any way.

Hmm, this is an interesting debate, and one that can't really be had in public!

The problem, Gaz, is that if muslims become a majority in the UK (not an impossible concept) then it will affect your life. They won't be satisfied with just having the freedom to worship Allah (they can already do that!), they would want (and some indeed already want) to impose Sharia law and create a muslim state. Personally, I don't want to cover my head, lose the hard-fought freedoms of a 21st century woman and go back to being a second class citizen!

I don't really understand the references to 'becoming' a secular state. To all intents and purposes, the UK already is a secular state. Yes, the Queen is technically head of the church of england and the Parliament retains some anachronisms like prayers before debates etc., but the Christian religion does not play a big role in Government or daily life.

None of this would be a problem if the muslims were as tolerant about our beliefs, customs and history (Christmas is a good example) as we are with theirs.

But I agree that the video is amateurish, biased and almost certainly statistically misleading. And the point that has been made on this thread about second generation immigrants taking on their host culture is a very good one. This is a debate that should be had in the open - but the problem is that it's so vulnerable to people like those who made that video turning it into latent racism dressed up as science.

[Jabberwocky]

I would be more worried about the UK becoming a dry state

[vaptin]

Juliet P,

I'm not really the best educated on the subject, but intergration will happen anyway, the immigration cultures will start to represent the native one more. I'd say America is the best example of this, in the uk as a whole I think this should start to be emphasise more, stuff like postive discrimination really doesn't help.

Anyway, a Sharia state won't be a secular state, this is kinda my point.

I would say the uk is pretty secular already, I would just like this to be made formal, more solid. Stuff like the government promoting condoms, civil partnerships etc were all implemented.

I think the best way forward is for Islam to progress, are the issues with women's rights cultural or integral to the religion? Driving a wedge doesn't help, it alienates further creating an us or them mentality (I'm not referencing this to anyone here) and I'd say the way terrioism etc have been handled has had this effect.

More infulence should be given to the likes of the Islamic religious leader who argued against the bruka, I remember watching newsnight where they had a radical cleric on and someone who had setup an anti terroists education thing or something - privately funded by rich Muslims. The radical priest was torn apart, it was more than Nick griffen on question time, he diddn't get the air of being bullied, it was a simple debate where his points just found themselves being convincingly countered without it getting personal or raised voices etc. Now my point in this is, why the hell was that confined to news night?

But not only should we give more funding and attention to those who seek to bring Islam into the 21st century, but also the wide issue of more oppurtinuties in deprived areas. What I'm saying is young Muslims joining up and supporting terrorism is analogues to kids joining gangs. . .

[Gaz]

I don't think you can say that muslims would be like that for example

Turkey
Total population: 68.7 million

Muslim population: 68 million (99%)

Secular State.

UNITED KINGDOM

Total population: 58.8 million

Muslim population: 1.6 million (2.8%)

3% of the population, there going to have to have about 10 kids per family for several generations to even have a chance of having enough Muslims to declare the UK a Muslim state by which time i'll be long dead, something for the grand kids to worry about i think.