FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[McLaren Fan]

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, November 5th 2009, 14:05 GMT

Force India is keeping a close eye on the progress of the Lotus Formula 1 team's 2010 design, with team sources saying it is concerned about the similarities between its old car and the new Lotus.

Lotus recently published photographs of the wind-tunnel model that will form the basis of its new car. At the time, there was discussion about how similar it looked to the Force India - especially because Force India's former Aerolab wind tunnel and technical chief Mike Gascoyne are now working together on the Lotus project.

Sources suggest that there were details on the wind tunnel model that have become a cause for alarm for Force India's senior management. These relate to the design of the front wing assembly, which Force India believes is virtually identical to that which it started last season.

Furthermore, the team is concerned by the fact that the Lotus was fitted with wind-tunnel tyres that featured hand-writing from Force India staff - meaning they could only have come from the Silverstone-based team.

Sources have said that Force India is keeping a keen eye on the situation - although no formal action has yet been taken on the matter. That situation could change, however, when Lotus signs the Concorde Agreement - when it will then have to comply with a clause that demands no parts of its 2010 car have been designed by anyone working for another team.

Lotus technical chief Mike Gascoyne has played down any talk that the Lotus is a copy of the Force India - and says any similarities between the cars may purely be because it has been designed by people who have already good knowledge of the current F1 regulations through their work on previous projects.

"Obviously our wind-tunnel model was designed for us by Fondtech in Italy," Gascoyne told AUTOSPORT.

"It is based around a 2010 chassis, because there is a big fuel volume in it, it has a Cosworth engine, an Xtrac gearbox, our suspension, and other stuff designed by us. The Fondmetal guys put some generic bodywork on [for the tests].

"Some of the staff had been working on different projects. And whereas you cannot copy anything or take anyone else's IP, you can use your expertise - and you will base that on what you know and what directions you know have been happening. That is what has happened."

Gascoyne added that because Lotus sub-contracts its design work to Fondtech, then any complaints Force India has should be directed to it - not Lotus.

[Rivelution]

I don't blame Force India. Mike Gascoyne doesn't seem like a trustworthy guy.

[Jensonb]

I dunno, I just don't see what the point in copying old Force India designs is.

[7UpJordan]

I'd say it looks fairly close to the Toyota front end as well, and Gascoyne worked for both Toyota and Spyker/Force India.

[Jabberwocky]

if 2 things are some ones brain child then there is going to be similarities.

Otherwise you could say that everyone copied Lotus by having a monocoque chassis. so no one can use it apart from them!

I am sure that all the teams have looked at this years Force India and taken some ideas for next year as well.

[The Oz]

I don't blame Force India. Mike Gascoyne doesn't seem like a trustworthy guy.

Never trust anyone in F1

[Tony_sa]

I don't blame Force India. Mike Gascoyne doesn't seem like a trustworthy guy.

Never trust anyone in F1

not gonna say it...

[Cubejam]

Gascoyne doesn't design the aero on the Lotus car. He said a company called Fondtech or... something like that designs it... they were the ones linked with Force India, so it isn't his fault.

Anyway... Force Indias design is basic. The most basic design of them all, they cant patent the basic design of an F1 car.

[Gilles 27]

It does look similar but by no means identical. The company which prepared Lotus's wind tunnel model are the parent company of another company which did work for Force India. Apparently, there is some pre-existing animosity between this company and Force India and legal proceedings on behalf of the Parent company are now being talked about. It all sound like a load on nonsense to me. If you were going to copy anyone's designs, you would surely copy someone who actually won a race or two in 2009. Also, you don't need to have access to a F1 team's confidential data to make a rough copy of a single aerodynamic assembly or component. Anyone willing to pay the money can purchase copies of Giorgio Piola's excellent illustrations and work from there...

[Cubejam]

This isn't the first time Force India have been involved in some legal trouble with other companies.

There's the Motorhome incident where Force India failed to pay for the motorhome... and got it taken off them....

Then theres this issue with sponsors leaving them to go to Ferrari... now they have to pay back $4.4million (which they're trying to get overturned)

Now we find Force India have some trouble with aerolab & their parent company....

Dear dear Force India...

[Gilles 27]

They had problems with Eddie Jordan too, he tried to block the entrance to their factory with rubble over it
tbf, the Etihad thing doesn't sound like it was their fault...

[Cubejam]

Yeah, I heard about that! Eddie can never let go of the past....

[Gilles 27]

it was funny at the time but even funnier considering how he tried to affiliate himself with Force India once they started doing well this season! i remember Ewan pointing it out when we were recording one of the podcasts, it seemed to have escaped people's memory. I mean the gall of the man!

[vaptin]

it was funny at the time but even funnier considering how he tried to affiliate himself with Force India once they started doing well this season! i remember Ewan pointing it out when we were recording one of the podcasts, it seemed to have escaped people's memory. I mean the gall of the man!

heh yeah, its was in spa I belive claiming credit for fisi cos he was at jordan.

[headless]

I dunno, I just don't see what the point in copying old Force India designs is.

Its a start.

I'd say it looks fairly close to the Toyota front end as well, and Gascoyne worked for both Toyota and Spyker/Force India.

If you think, or usse an idea that works you'll try and carry it on and use that process/idea again.