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[bmwpower]

beating every single team mate you have

He hasn't done that though, not by a long shot.

Not by a long shot? With Sauber, he outperformed Kimi and many thought that was good enough for NH to land at McLaren but didn't, then Massa joined Sauber which NH also outperformed. NH joined Jordan briefly and outperformed Giorgio Pantano, NH then joined BMW-Sauber in 2006 along side the highly regarded (by the media) Kubica, yet NH had more points and outperformed him until 2009.

He hasn't beaten every single teammate he has had, which is what you said! Then guys like Raikkonen, yeah, he beat him by maybe 2, 3 points - Raikkonen who was a rookie with only 17 single seater races under his belt before 2001. Then he could only beat Massa by a similar margin, another rookie who was also a complete liability that season. Pantano is a joke and he should've, and did beat him easily. Kubica actually bettered Heidfeld in '06 in the races they were in the same team. Yeah, Heidfeld has scored more points than Kubica in the time they've been in the BMW team together, but it's a mere handful more. Heidfeld outperforming Kubica is very, very debatable, and besides the amount of points scored don't always tell the whole story alone, surely?

He's not a bad driver, just not really one of the best. IMO! Bizarrely though, i think if you put him in a top car he'd walk the title through his sheer consistency! It wouldn't be spectacular, but the job would get done.

I think you just answered my question

[bmwpower]

Why would I have to have read another thread?!? That's got nothing to do with it! What you posted was a misquoting of both what I said and what I meant - and you know that! Why try and worm out of it when it will be perfectly obvious to everyone that reads this! What you said was that I had implied Heidfeld isn't talented (i.e. that I was saying he's not a good driver) - which is just a blatant lie. Do you just like to cause trouble? Or are you just too immature to admit when you've got something wrong?

For the last time - I didn't say that Heidfeld is a bad driver!!

Do somebody got off on the wrong side of the bed and forgot his cereal? Just chill, its a debate with different opinions, just because somebody doesn't see the world throught your eyes doesn't make right or wrong, its just an opinion, don't get mad because somebody has an opinion. I didn't implied anything, your pointed and I quoted you was that Heidfeld is not as talented and my opinion was he is because he has outperformed him which I presented with facts not name calling, sorry if I hurt your feelings, its a forum with debates.

[scotty]

I think you just answered my question

What question is that then? Judging by the way you made certain parts of my text bold, you appear to think a driver can be judged solely on the amount of points they scored, not considering circumstances. Forgive me if i'm wrong!

[zurich_allan]

Why would I have to have read another thread?!? That's got nothing to do with it! What you posted was a misquoting of both what I said and what I meant - and you know that! Why try and worm out of it when it will be perfectly obvious to everyone that reads this! What you said was that I had implied Heidfeld isn't talented (i.e. that I was saying he's not a good driver) - which is just a blatant lie. Do you just like to cause trouble? Or are you just too immature to admit when you've got something wrong?

For the last time - I didn't say that Heidfeld is a bad driver!!

Do somebody got off on the wrong side of the bed and forgot his cereal? Just chill, its a debate with different opinions, just because somebody doesn't see the world throught your eyes doesn't make right or wrong, its just an opinion, don't get mad because somebody has an opinion. I didn't implied anything, your pointed and I quoted you was that Heidfeld is not as talented and my opinion was he is because he has outperformed him which I presented with facts not name calling, sorry if I hurt your feelings, its a forum with debates.

See - there you go again! Your post is just another misrepresentation trying to make me look bad for things I haven't said or done! Of course people can have different opinions on things like this - and I didn't say anything other than this. I never even disagreed with what you said. My being annoyed has nothing to do with anybody having a different opinion; it is all to do with you putting words in my mouth that I never said! In fact I'd say quite the opposite - it's actually you getting annoyed because others don't accept your opinion.

Honestly, am I the mad one here? Or can others see who the problem is lying with??

[Susaluda]

I think Kubica has more potential than he's been able to show this year. He was a title contender in 2008 which I think shows he has a lot of talent but this year he lacked the car to show it. I wouldn't put him in the same category as Alonso, Hamilton, or Vettel, but he's definitely above Massa, Raikkonen, Button, and Webber in my opinion. Hopefully Renault will produce a decent car for next year so that he can show his true talent.

[T Harada]

kubica have name of brave driver in japan that drive scary but people don't like him much .

[RACERX11]

well, Kubica is not that good, if you are looking at stats.............. but by judging his way of driving, his age and what team is he driving for, I would put my money, he is a world champion..................
The pole is good !!!!!

[Tony_sa]

well, Kubica is not that good, if you are looking at stats.............. but by judging his way of driving, his age and what team is he driving for, I would put my money, he is a world champion..................
The pole is good !!!!!

Pole ???

[Gaz]

well, Kubica is not that good, if you are looking at stats.............. but by judging his way of driving, his age and what team is he driving for, I would put my money, he is a world champion..................
The pole is good !!!!!

Pole ???

[RACERX11]

thanks GAZ !!!!!

[racechick]

well, Kubica is not that good, if you are looking at stats.............. but by judging his way of driving, his age and what team is he driving for, I would put my money, he is a world champion..................
The pole is good !!!!!

Pole ???

[McLaren Fan]

This is a really good thread. It has been informative to read, as I've kind of forgotten about Heidfeld and Kubica both this season, given BMW have fallen into obscurity. For me, Kubica is probably more talented, and thus has the most potential to go far in the sport; whereas Heidfeld is more of a generalist. They are a decent pairing, though, as a team can cover all its bases. When their car is fast and near the sharp end of the grid, Kubica can do a lot of damage; and when the car is not as fast or when conditions are changeable, Heidfeld's repertoire of skills comes into play.

[Tony_sa]

well, Kubica is not that good, if you are looking at stats.............. but by judging his way of driving, his age and what team is he driving for, I would put my money, he is a world champion..................
The pole is good !!!!!

Pole ???

Anna - dont see whats so funny... and thanx LB but thats not the "pole" in my question. was thinking of a different one rotflmao. you wont understand....

[al4x]

^naughty!!

kubica hopefully will be good in the renault seat [providing theyre still in it] i want renault to go out on a high, at least getting a few wins