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[racechick]

Wow I cant believe you took the time to write all that ridiculous drivel , and I cant be bothered to answer it all. You asked for evidence and you got it. Why do yo keep bringing McLaren amd Ron Dennis into it? Ron Dennis isnt stadning for the FIA presidency...Im sure I just said that! McLaren were only done for cheating because Todt was in bed with the FIA, and thats why Todt and his cronnies got away with far worse. And yes Im in bed with Bud

Evidence? Where? I saw some emotional wailing, a bit of star struck fandom bandwagoneering but not one ounce of evidence as you attest. I hated Schumacher with a passion like every race fan sick of domination (in fact, I was cheering for McLaren at that time) but where does this Todt hatred of yours come from? Your beloved Hammy wasn't even out of diapers yet so that couldn't be the reason. Where is this evidence of which you speak? Oh, it's because the red cars beat your beloved to the title the year he completely screwed the proverbial pooch? I assure you, that was not Todt's doing either...Hammy boned that canine all on his own. Again, I'll ask you...show me where Todt has done anything wrong other than win in a game where winning is the only goal. I despised his driver....but I have yet to find a reason to despise Todt...though I remain open minded since any reason to hate red is good enough for me. You just haven't uttered a real reason yet.

First you bring in Ron Dennis and mcLaren now hammy as well!! Amazing! THEY ARE NOT STANDING FOR FIA PRESIDENCY!! At least you've learnt one thing, my dislike of Todt well predates lewis (welldone ) So follow your thoughts through...come on its not that tricky.... come on come on..thats it!! I cant be a bandwaggoning fangirl Oh boy you contradict yourself.
I dont hate the red (specially since the corrupt cheat(s) left) so im afraid you're gonna have to find evidence for ferrari hating all by yourself. You reckon you're up to that?
Evidence on Todt you now have aplenty. Go mull it over

[texasmr2]

[racechick]

:rofl:

[texasmr2]

:rofl:

[stonemonkey]

I detect a pattern emerging.

[racechick]

I detect a pattern emerging.

[billindenver]

First you bring in Ron Dennis and mcLaren now hammy as well!! Amazing! THEY ARE NOT STANDING FOR FIA PRESIDENCY!! At least you've learnt one thing, my dislike of Todt well predates lewis (welldone ) So follow your thoughts through...come on its not that tricky.... come on come on..thats it!! I cant be a bandwaggoning fangirl Oh boy you contradict yourself.
I dont hate the red (specially since the corrupt cheat(s) left) so im afraid you're gonna have to find evidence for ferrari hating all by yourself. You reckon you're up to that?
Evidence on Todt you now have aplenty. Go mull it over

Evidence aplenty? What have you been smoking? Are you referring to the video of a team manager giving team orders back when team orders were on the table and openly acknowledged? Are you so niave as to believe that team orders do not still exist? Are you seriously going to claim that no McLaren driver has ever mysteriously slowed or pitted while his team mate slid by? Seriously, you need a reality check. I asked you to put up the proof of Todt cheating that you openly claimed to have and this is it? That's all? I'm unimpressed. I disliked the Todt/Schuey era as much as anyone...but you have failed to show anything on Todt other than one decade and a half old rumor started by a driver who sucked, lost his job, made a claim to a reporter but never to the FIA and a video showing team orders that even today are openly acknowledged to still exist. We've all seen plenty of team orders in action over the last several years with unexplained pitstop strategies etc. It's not as openly admitted as it was back then, but team orders have been around since the beginning of this sport.....as they are in nearly every level of racing.

Now...lets see that evidence that you are still talking about and as yet have not produced.

[racechick]

First you bring in Ron Dennis and mcLaren now hammy as well!! Amazing! THEY ARE NOT STANDING FOR FIA PRESIDENCY!! At least you've learnt one thing, my dislike of Todt well predates lewis (welldone ) So follow your thoughts through...come on its not that tricky.... come on come on..thats it!! I cant be a bandwaggoning fangirl Oh boy you contradict yourself.
I dont hate the red (specially since the corrupt cheat(s) left) so im afraid you're gonna have to find evidence for ferrari hating all by yourself. You reckon you're up to that?
Evidence on Todt you now have aplenty. Go mull it over

Evidence aplenty? What have you been smoking? Are you referring to the video of a team manager giving team orders back when team orders were on the table and openly acknowledged? Are you so niave as to believe that team orders do not still exist? Are you seriously going to claim that no McLaren driver has ever mysteriously slowed or pitted while his team mate slid by? Seriously, you need a reality check. I asked you to put up the proof of Todt cheating that you openly claimed to have and this is it? That's all? I'm unimpressed. I disliked the Todt/Schuey era as much as anyone...but you have failed to show anything on Todt other than one decade and a half old rumor started by a driver who sucked, lost his job, made a claim to a reporter but never to the FIA and a video showing team orders that even today are openly acknowledged to still exist. We've all seen plenty of team orders in action over the last several years with unexplained pitstop strategies etc. It's not as openly admitted as it was back then, but team orders have been around since the beginning of this sport.....as they are in nearly every level of racing.

Now...lets see that evidence that you are still talking about and as yet have not produced.

I hadnt actually mentioned team orders, but yep, that as well. Have you forgotten all the others all ready? Actually when he first started cheating it was with Bennetton so i dont now why you keep bringing up red hatred

Just an interesting snippet here while we're on the subject. An autosport website poll revealed 82.9% support for Vatanen and 17.1% for Todt. Todt's answer "I heard that, but in Germany, by far I rank number one, and in Italy I rank number one" You dont say. Why would that be???? No conflict of interest there then.

EDIT- which old driver who sucked are you on about? Yiou've lost me there???

[billindenver]

First you bring in Ron Dennis and mcLaren now hammy as well!! Amazing! THEY ARE NOT STANDING FOR FIA PRESIDENCY!! At least you've learnt one thing, my dislike of Todt well predates lewis (welldone ) So follow your thoughts through...come on its not that tricky.... come on come on..thats it!! I cant be a bandwaggoning fangirl Oh boy you contradict yourself.
I dont hate the red (specially since the corrupt cheat(s) left) so im afraid you're gonna have to find evidence for ferrari hating all by yourself. You reckon you're up to that?
Evidence on Todt you now have aplenty. Go mull it over

Evidence aplenty? What have you been smoking? Are you referring to the video of a team manager giving team orders back when team orders were on the table and openly acknowledged? Are you so niave as to believe that team orders do not still exist? Are you seriously going to claim that no McLaren driver has ever mysteriously slowed or pitted while his team mate slid by? Seriously, you need a reality check. I asked you to put up the proof of Todt cheating that you openly claimed to have and this is it? That's all? I'm unimpressed. I disliked the Todt/Schuey era as much as anyone...but you have failed to show anything on Todt other than one decade and a half old rumor started by a driver who sucked, lost his job, made a claim to a reporter but never to the FIA and a video showing team orders that even today are openly acknowledged to still exist. We've all seen plenty of team orders in action over the last several years with unexplained pitstop strategies etc. It's not as openly admitted as it was back then, but team orders have been around since the beginning of this sport.....as they are in nearly every level of racing.

Now...lets see that evidence that you are still talking about and as yet have not produced.

I hadnt actually mentioned team orders, but yep, that as well. Have you forgotten all the others all ready? Actually when he first started cheating it was with Bennetton so i dont now why you keep bringing up red hatred

Just an interesting snippet here while we're on the subject. An autosport website poll revealed 82.9% support for Vatanen and 17.1% for Todt. Todt's answer "I heard that, but in Germany, by far I rank number one, and in Italy I rank number one" You dont say. Why would that be???? No conflict of interest there then.

EDIT- which old driver who sucked are you on about? Yiou've lost me there???

RC, you are typically an on point, intelligent poster and I can certainly respect you while disagreeing with your Hamilton position. On this topic, you are acting rather obtuse. You claimed, right out in the open, that proof of Todt being a cheater was out there and obvious...and yet, even after many calls to produce it you still make vague statements like 'when he first started cheating it was with Bennetton' without offering up a single substancial point. Where are the press stories where he was caught cheating? Where is this proof of which you have spoken so many times now? Now you are lost about the driver story? It was one of the supposed proofs you attempted to hide behind. The guy who claimed he was fired because he didn't hold up someone or other enough. This isn't a long thread, go back and read it. As to your not mentioning team orders, then WHAT were you trying to say with the video of Todt giving Barricello orders to let Michael pass for the championship? That is team orders to help the team win the championship. It is done in EVERY form of racing from SCCA to F1. The team paid for the cars, the travel, the mechanics...EVERYTHING and their payback is a championship in the form of dollars and sponsorship. Team orders exist and always will...these days they just can't say over the radio what Todt did back then. Team orders were not even illegal back then....just unpopular. For the first 52 years of Formula One, team orders were not just legal but openly and logically accepted. For the last 7 years they have been illegal so getting all emotional over an old broadcast of a manager giving team orders (and calling him a cheat for it) seems a bit odd to me. The argument over whether or not that rule should be removed is still going on.

The point being, you haven't offered any sort of reasoning to back up your claim that Todt is a cheater. He is certainly no favorite of mine and I despised his driver for dominating all he saw but we are talking about Todt not Schuey. Show me some proof please so that I can hate him as much as you do. As to the opinion polls taken in england, I'm not surprised that Todt is losing and to be honest I couldn't care less as I'm not backing him for office...what we are talking about here is your assurance that he is a cheat, with lots of insinuation and ZERO actual substance. If you want to say you hate the guy, then say you hate the guy...but your assurance that you respect all others in Ferrari but hate Todt for cheating rings as patently false. Flex floors etc are examples of Todt cheating at Ferrari while you claim to respect everyone else in management. Clearly you either don't realize what Todt's job was (do you think he designed the cars?) or you are grasping at straws...trying to find a logical reason for your dislike of him. It's ok to just not like him because he's a short, troll of a man. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you are going to call him a cheat and claim its easily proved....then show the proof too.

[bud]

Bill end of the day you must have been hidden in a desert not to know of the stuff that Todt did whilst at Ferrari. alot of it is years old now and frankly i and i bet others are not going to cypher through news sites just to please your ego! I dont care that you find nothing wrong with Todt but thats your problem not anyone elses on here so i dont see why we should bother.

[7UpJordan]

Just an interesting snippet here while we're on the subject. An autosport website poll revealed 82.9% support for Vatanen and 17.1% for Todt. Todt's answer "I heard that, but in Germany, by far I rank number one, and in Italy I rank number one" You dont say. Why would that be???? No conflict of interest there then.

[sarcasm] Oh wow, I wonder why... hmmmmm... oh it's too hard to figure out. It must be just a coincidence! [/sarcasm]

[billindenver]

Bill end of the day you must have been hidden in a desert not to know of the stuff that Todt did whilst at Ferrari. alot of it is years old now and frankly i and i bet others are not going to cypher through news sites just to please your ego! I dont care that you find nothing wrong with Todt but thats your problem not anyone elses on here so i dont see why we should bother.

The infamous "everyone knows that" argument! Oh, well that sure put me in my place. Funny...how "everyone" as defined by this group means everyone who is a die hard McLaren fan. Perhaps I've been 'hidden in a desert' as you put it and just missed all of the Todt cheating scandals....or perhaps you have been living on the internet so long you only hear the 'news' as put out by other McLaren fans who also never unplug. For reference I did a google search on "Jean Todt cheats cheated lies" and found nothing. I then did a search on the same thing with Lewis Hamilton and another on Ron Dennis...and found TONS of stories. Rather odd don't you think? I have been keeping an open mind here, hoping you guys would give me something concrete from which I could also hate Jean Todt....but as it's been nearly a week and you've produced nothing but 'everyone knows that' as your proof...I'm starting to think this is a simple case of those who have been caught multiple times cheating trying like hell to get some mud to stick to their rival.

As I said, I'm very willing to hate Jean Todt...just give me a reason why, other than he has spent a career bitch slapping McLaren around on the track.

[Jim Riven]

I am not a Mclaren fan, or rather it would be more accurate to say that I am a supporter of multiple F1 teams.

But look at it this way.
Jean Todt manufactured a number of results through team orders, disrespecting the very notion of a fair contest, this man will now be asked to preside over the ruling body if both he and Max get their way.

[billindenver]

I am not a Mclaren fan, or rather it would be more accurate to say that I am a supporter of multiple F1 teams.

But look at it this way.
Jean Todt manufactured a number of results through team orders, disrespecting the very notion of a fair contest, this man will now be asked to preside over the ruling body if both he and Max get their way.

Team orders were legal and had been so for 50 years. 7 years ago when the new rule was brought in is probably half a lifetime for many internet experts but those of us who have been racing cars and watching others do it for several decades don't tend to get all emotional over team orders. Bicycle racing has team orders. Marathon running has team orders. Olympic long distance has team orders. Team sports have team orders. If you want that done away with...have each team field ONE car.

[texasmr2]

If you want that done away with...have each team field ONE car.

Great retort .