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#160985
Wow I cant believe you took the time to write all that ridiculous drivel , and I cant be bothered to answer it all. You asked for evidence and you got it. Why do yo keep bringing McLaren amd Ron Dennis into it? Ron Dennis isnt stadning for the FIA presidency...Im sure I just said that! McLaren were only done for cheating because Todt was in bed with the FIA, and thats why Todt and his cronnies got away with far worse. And yes Im in bed with Bud :rolleyes:


Evidence? Where? I saw some emotional wailing, a bit of star struck fandom bandwagoneering but not one ounce of evidence as you attest. I hated Schumacher with a passion like every race fan sick of domination (in fact, I was cheering for McLaren at that time) but where does this Todt hatred of yours come from? Your beloved Hammy wasn't even out of diapers yet so that couldn't be the reason. Where is this evidence of which you speak? Oh, it's because the red cars beat your beloved to the title the year he completely screwed the proverbial pooch? I assure you, that was not Todt's doing either...Hammy boned that canine all on his own. Again, I'll ask you...show me where Todt has done anything wrong other than win in a game where winning is the only goal. I despised his driver....but I have yet to find a reason to despise Todt...though I remain open minded since any reason to hate red is good enough for me. You just haven't uttered a real reason yet.
#160989
POINT ONE-Im a McLarenFan and yes, I hate the slimey toad Todt. But I dont hate anything in a red shirt, in fact i like and respect many of them kimi, Smedly, Massa , Domenicalli being at the top of my list. The only ones Ive really disliked are Todt and Schumacher.
POINT TWO- Evidence of Todt 's corruption. His recent Malaysian tourism scam.


He was given a job with a very high amount of renumeration. If there's any problem here it's with the Malaysian government for offering such renumeration. What has Todt done wrong? Who would refuse such a job, and for what reasons?

His involvement with mass dampers, fexible floors, traction control, drivers parking on the race track, drivers forcing opponents off the track during title shoot outs. And central to this, his ability to get away with much of the above due his 'special relationship' with the FIA.


All teams push technological boundaries. The FIA is inconsistent with its judgements on technical matters leaving teams no option but to explore the grey areas, and get stung. Ferrari, like other teams, has both benefitted (tyre "ovens",mass dampers) and lost out (Flexible floors, Double diffuser) from this. But it's not Ferrari's fault that the FIA doesn't do its technical job properly. If the technical decisions were being done as a Ferrari benefit as some people suggest, surely they would consistently benefit Ferrari. They don't.

Ferrari backhanders from the FIA.
Ferrari veto of rule change
Conflict of intetrest(he only resigned from Ferrari to have a shot at the FIA)
Support from Mosely who endorses corruption
POINT THREE -Whats Ron Dennis go to do with this? He's not standing for FIA presidency, he has more integrity than that!


At a time when all the teams were playing political silly buggers, Ferrari was offered a deal and did it. The other teams were playing politics for their own advantage just as much as Ferrari. It just so happens that Ferrari won out, and the other teams lost.

So, it all boils down to a lot of prejudice and supposition. Where are the facts?
#161004
Bill i know you live in the states so its hard to keep up with what goes on in F1 over the years but surely you know of Todts corrupt doings? Ill give you one story i am not going to search through 15 years of online stories just for you.

1997 Jerez

Jacques Villeneuve won the 1997 world championship even though Michael Schumacher, and, it now appears, the whole Ferrari team did their very best to stop him. With Schumacher’s retirement the old stories are coming out of the woodwork. But few better, or more damning, than the one told by Norberto Fontana.


By Tom Rubython



Nine years after the world championship showdown at the Spanish circuit, Jerez de la Frontera, between Jacques Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher in 1997, the then-Sauber driver Norberto Fontana has decided to tell the story of what happened to him and his part in that highly-charged weekend.

Fontana was a talented driver who had won the German Formula Three Championship two years before, beating Ralf Schumacher, Jarno Trulli and Alexander Wurz in the process. But the Argentinian’s career stalled and he finally got an opportunity in Formula One deputising for the injured Gianni Morbidelli at the Sauber Petronas team for four races at the end of 1997. After the Jerez race, he never competed in Formula One again, going to America and into obscurity. Few remember his Formula One career except in Argentina where he is still a minor celebrity.

At Jerez on that day, Sunday 26th October, Fontana had qualified 18th out of 22 and gone about his weekend totally unnoticed. He was 1.3 seconds slower than his team-mate Johnny Herbert in qualifying. But Ferrari team principal, Jean Todt, had spotted his potential in 18th place, although not for the usual reasons. In a recent interview with the daily Argentinian sports magazine Ole, the now 31-year-old Fontana claims two or three hours before the race, Todt visited the Sauber motorhome where the two drivers were having a pre-race massage. The Swiss team used Ferrari engines at the time. What happened next shocked all those present. Todt told the three men that the Saubers must block Jacques Villeneuve’s Williams Renault if they were in a position to do so in order to help Michael Schumacher win the world championship. The order was given to Fontana and Herbert, the team’s number one driver.

In reality it was unlikely either of the Sauber drivers would have had a serious chance to block Villeneuve, but Todt apparently made it very clear what they must do it if they had. Fontana says now: “We were in Peter Sauber’s motorhome with the masseur and Johnny Herbert, softening the muscles. It was two or three hours until the race started. Jean Todt entered and went straight to the point: ‘By strict order of Ferrari, Villeneuve must be held up if you come across him on the track. To whoever this applies.’ And this applied to me.” Todt didn’t appear to know who Fontana was but realised as a slower backmarker he might have more chance to block Villeneuve than Herbert would.

It was an astonishing situation for the young driver to be in. But according to Fontana, Peter Sauber told him that whatever the morality he had little choice but to comply. Sauber had an engine contract with Ferrari, then in its first year, which obliged it to comply.

Peter Sauber has since strongly refuted this version of events in an interview with his close friend, the journalist Roger Benoit. But he cannot know for sure as he was not present in the motorhome when Todt made the request. Nevertheless, in an interview published in Blick, the Swiss daily newspaper, Sauber called Fontana a liar and vigorously denies Fontana’s claim.

Sauber told Blick that in the nine years Ferrari and Sauber worked together, the Italians never asked his team to block other drivers. He told Benoit: “Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher on the track.”

Benoit is a journalist of the highest regard and with the highest standards, and would have printed exactly what Sauber told him. That Sauber denies it cannot be refuted.

However the television footage appears to prove Sauber wrong rather than Fontana. It clearly shows Fontana blocking Villeneuve for three corners when he came up to be lapped on lap 32. Fontana describes how he did it: “When I came to taking a turn, I held Jacques back by three or four curves, not more.”

As well as the television footage, it is also backed up by a sequence of remarks between Murray Walker and Martin Brundle, the ITV commentators for the English-language broadcast of the event. The exchange went like this:

“Case of champagne from Ferrari to Sauber,” said Walker.

“Because the Argentinian newcomer Norberto Fontana, up from Formula Three, really, really, helped Michael Schumacher on his way there,” he added.

“What engine have they got in that Sauber, Murray?” said Brundle.

“Isn’t it a Ferrari?” he said.

“Well, it is, yes,” said Walker. “Martin you are a cynical chap.”

Walker and Brundle had no doubt what had happened, and although they didn’t know why at the time, by their comments they suspected some doubtful behaviour by Ferrari.

Fontana is adamant he did his job well and blocked Villeneuve for three or four corners and cost him around three seconds.

In the end, of course, it didn’t matter as when Villeneuve challenged Michael Schumacher for the lead, the cars collided and Schumacher got the worst of it and retired from the race and championship contention. Villeneuve won the world championship and Schumacher was later stripped of his second-place for pushing Villeneuve’s Williams Renault off the track. The race also had another controversy that enabled Todt to get away with his ruse: the Williams Renault and McLaren Mercedes openly colluded to alter the course of events, although not negatively as Todt had planned. Frank Williams agreed that if the McLaren drivers Mika Häkkinen and David Coulthard helped Villeneuve then the Canadian would hand the win to either of the McLaren drivers if he didn’t need the points at the end of the race. But this was certainly not collusion to the extent of trying to disrupt Villeneuve’s race as Fontana was ordered to do.

And there the secret would have lain if Fontana had not harnessed bitter feelings about the incident and been telephoned by a reporter from Ole to comment on Schumacher’s retirement on the evening of the 10th September 2006. The article duly appeared in the following day’s edition.

Fontana was bitter because he claimed that neither Schumacher nor Todt ever thanked him for what he did. Fontana believes the incident harmed his career and his chances of attracting another drive with another team. He says: “It was incredible at the time but already it’s history, a story.”

Fontana said he was telling the story now because time had passed and Schumacher was retiring: “Now that time has passed, I can tell the story. After all, who remembers?”

He says: “It harmed me. First, Schumacher never thanked me for it and Todt, as they lost the championship, they left the motorhomes heated and I never spoke with him again. And, months later, that situation finished me.” More than anything else, he was angry about not being thanked.

Fontana was a friend of Schumacher’s from his German Formula Three days, as he says: “We had a lot of contact when I raced in the German Formula Three, because Ralf was there.” Schumacher was once quoted as saying of Fontana: “Who is that boy? Fontana, an Argentinian? He goes very well, that boy he goes well.” Fontana remembers eating pizza with Schumacher and becoming friends.

Fontana did go on to secure a drive with Tyrrell in 1998, but after the team was bought by Craig Pollock he blocked the move. Fontana maintains it was because Pollock was Villeneuve’s manager and remembered what had happened. He explains: “Pollock finished me and gave me the thumbs down for that manoeuvre.”

Now Fontana is sanguine about the incident and ruminates about what might have led from that Tyrrell drive: “I had more to lose than to gain. I did what I had to do. But it is a done thing.”

But Todt may not be out of the woods. There is now enough published evidence for Max Mosley, the FIA president, to haul Todt up in front of the FIA World Motorsport Council for what he did. But will he?


Todt is a snake and does what ever it takes to get what he wants and that doesnt matter if it honest or not! He uses politics especially and the media to his gain.
I remember Todts dealings with his claim Alonso supposedly blocked Massa, not to mention his explanation for Schumacher parking at Monaco, they way he would use the media during the spy scandal

answer me this, why is it all the drivers and all the teams want Ari over Todt?

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#161042
That is the evidence of which you speak? A decade plus old story spouted by a driver who sucked and lost his ride? Sour grapes by another sucky driver is your proof? Ok, if that is your 'evidence' then so be it. I'm not a Todt fan by any means, but I'm not going to buy into the latest scandal drivel simply because some fans who have always hated all things ferrari say it is so. All F1 teams push the limits and always have. Team orders and holding up the opposition has ALWAYS taken place and always will. Flavio was busted doing wrong and he is gone. Dennis was busted doing wrong and he is gone. Todt is not gone...and until he is found and proven to be the cheat that Dennis and Flavio have been proven to be....I'll keep an open mind, despite the silver car fans assurances that he is every bit the cheat that Ron Dennis is. Perhaps he is...I just want to see some proof before I believe it and an unsubstantiated driver crying to a reporter over why losing his ride was someone else's fault...that falls short.
Last edited by billindenver on 07 Oct 09, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.
#161048
I just want to see some proof before I believe it and an unsubstantiated driver crying to a reporter over why losing his ride was someone else's fault...that falls short.


Yes, this has nothing in common with the recent "Crashgate"

NPjr cried to the FIA, not a reporter.
#161051
Ah yes, I had forgotten....

The FIA is out to get McLaren and only McLaren.

Got it.

How did the FIA forget that commitment with the dampers, flexfloor, diffuser rulings? Someone in the FIA must be as forgetful as I am when they forgot to give Ferrari everything they wanted. Or perhaps there is a team and it's fans out there that despite being caught cheating repeatedly still feel they are the victims. I'll stand there and cheer against Ferrari as loudly as the next guy, but aren't you McLaren fans getting tired of crying 'Whoa is me' every other day? The FIA isn't out to get you. Your team has made some monumental screw ups in the last few years...the cause of all that poor management is now gone..perhaps the future will be brighter for it.
#161053
Ah yes, I had forgotten....

The FIA is out to get McLaren and only McLaren.

Got it.

How did the FIA forget that commitment with the dampers, flexfloor, diffuser rulings? Someone in the FIA must be as forgetful as I am when they forgot to give Ferrari everything they wanted. Or perhaps there is a team and it's fans out there that despite being caught cheating repeatedly still feel they are the victims. I'll stand there and cheer against Ferrari as loudly as the next guy, but aren't you McLaren fans getting tired of crying 'Whoa is me' every other day? The FIA isn't out to get you. Your team has made some monumental screw ups in the last few years...the cause of all that poor management is now gone..perhaps the future will be brighter for it.


The jury's out and Bill's on a roll .... cool :thumbup:
#161056
Ah yes, I had forgotten....

The FIA is out to get McLaren and only McLaren.

Got it.

How did the FIA forget that commitment with the dampers, flexfloor, diffuser rulings? Someone in the FIA must be as forgetful as I am when they forgot to give Ferrari everything they wanted. Or perhaps there is a team and it's fans out there that despite being caught cheating repeatedly still feel they are the victims. I'll stand there and cheer against Ferrari as loudly as the next guy, but aren't you McLaren fans getting tired of crying 'Whoa is me' every other day? The FIA isn't out to get you. Your team has made some monumental screw ups in the last few years...the cause of all that poor management is now gone..perhaps the future will be brighter for it.


that came from no where... but nothing new :wink:
#161129
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHPQSOziDw


Yuk. Dirty little man.
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