FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Tony_sa]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.


How you figure ??

Because everyone has the choice of whether to use it or not. I don't like KERS, but it's not unfair.

ok .. so your only reasoning here is coz its allowed by the rules so the advantage the kers system brings is non existant ?? or are you saying the teams that dont have the system is to blame for the disadvantage they are suffering. and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

Brawn and Red Bull made an early decision that KERS wasn't to their advantage, looks like it was the right decision to me. By your logic you could've said that the non KERS teams had an unfair advantage at the start of the season and that the championship is going to be won due to that.

correct as well -- maybe stop arguing about it and blame it on the fia. they should have said no car will be allowed to race without the system. thats a level playing field right there !!

[bud]

end of the day James the teams that dont have it made that choice did they not?

Yes is the answer to your question.

But on the driver, not on the team, it's unfair. From their point of view when ol' Mr KERS comes past, eyes closed if he wants, and they have to spend a boring race behind them trying to take the lead back in the pit stops... it's just rubbish.

If they all had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. If nobody had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. As long as we get one of those situations next year, people won't be so bothered by it.

I know what youre saying from a drivers point of view but what about Hamilton or Massa at the start of the year? I mean hey atleast Vettel is in with a shot at the title huh? mr KERS might beat you this time but where was he in the first half of the year? thats right while you were winning he was no where.

[supeindesu]

Alonso was penalized for slowing down... Now the rule about yellow flag should be: "Don't accelerate or brake, but the complete opposite..."

[Tony_sa]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

Denthul .. you not listening. the cars do not race with a weight disadvantage ( or heavier ) car at any point during the race. Dumbo can tell you that and he will be right. they are all still with normal weight during the race.

[JamesD89]

end of the day James the teams that dont have it made that choice did they not?

Yes is the answer to your question.

But on the driver, not on the team, it's unfair. From their point of view when ol' Mr KERS comes past, eyes closed if he wants, and they have to spend a boring race behind them trying to take the lead back in the pit stops... it's just rubbish.

If they all had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. If nobody had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. As long as we get one of those situations next year, people won't be so bothered by it.

I know what youre saying from a drivers point of view but what about Hamilton or Massa at the start of the year? I mean hey atleast Vettel is in with a shot at the title huh? mr KERS might beat you this time but where was he in the first half of the year? thats right while you were winning he was no where.

Yeah he is, but he's never racing anyone. Vettel hasn't gone head to head with Button. Button hasn't gone head to head with Barrichello. Hamilton hasn't gone head to head with Raikkonen. It's always an easy win (in F1 terms anyway).

Get them driving the same type of car and get them doing some genuine on track jostling for position!

[bud]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

Denthul .. you not listening. the cars do not race with a weight disadvantage ( or heavier ) car at any point during the race. Dumbo can tell you that and he will be right. they are all still with normal weight during the race.

dumbo hey? haha ok sparky its clear you dont know much about F1 if you dont know about the importance to the cars setup being able to play around with the ballast???

[stonemonkey]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

Denthul .. you not listening. the cars do not race with a weight disadvantage ( or heavier ) car at any point during the race. Dumbo can tell you that and he will be right. they are all still with normal weight during the race.

They don't have the choice where to place that weight like the non kers cars can do with the ballast and the weight is higher up raising the cog.

[Tony_sa]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

Denthul .. you not listening. the cars do not race with a weight disadvantage ( or heavier ) car at any point during the race. Dumbo can tell you that and he will be right. they are all still with normal weight during the race.

They don't have the choice where to place that weight like the non kers cars can do with the ballast and the weight is higher up raising the cog.

ok - fact is on the track the only weight diffrence is the amount of fuel the cars are carrying. anyway i think i going over my quota posts for the day on a stupid topic like kers.

[bud]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

Denthul .. you not listening. the cars do not race with a weight disadvantage ( or heavier ) car at any point during the race. Dumbo can tell you that and he will be right. they are all still with normal weight during the race.

They don't have the choice where to place that weight like the non kers cars can do with the ballast and the weight is higher up raising the cog.

ok - fact is on the track the only weight diffrence is the amount of fuel the cars are carrying. anyway i think i going over my quota posts for the day on a stupid topic like kers.

yeah it looks like the whole weight issue and how it affects a cars handling is going over your head by the looks!! its not a drag race!

[Tony_sa]

:eek: Alonso was penalized for slowing down... Now the rule about yellow flag should be: "Don't accelerate or brake, but the complete opposite..."

guess its just F1... at least they cant ban him for doing that er ?

[Frosty]

KERS is not an unfair advantage because teams could choose to have it or not. Just like a team can choose if they want a double diffuser or not or if they want wings on their car or if they want to put on turning vanes. The non KERS teams decided it was an advantage not to have it, the KERS teams decided it was an advantage to have it. If all the teams believe they are getting an advantage how can it be unfair?

[Frosty]

:eek: Alonso was penalized for slowing down... Now the rule about yellow flag should be: "Don't accelerate or brake, but the complete opposite..."

guess its just F1... at least they cant ban him for doing that er ?

Maybe if you read a bit more then you would not be so hasty to make such comments
"The stewards also considered the telemetry data provided by the team which demonstrated that the driver had failed to reduce his speed on seeing the yellow flag at the exit of turn 14. The driver only reduced his speed having passed the hazard."

[Denthúl]

A definitive grid for the Japanese Grand Prix will be issued prior to the race on Sunday morning.

Title rivals Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button, Force India's Adrian Sutil and Renault's Fernando Alonso have all been given five-place penalties for failing to slow sufficiently under yellow flags for Sebastien Buemi's accident in Q2. The Toro Rosso driver was also penalised for dragging his damaged car back to the pits.

Although provisional grids have been circulated, a firm decision on the starting order has yet to be made, as the positions will depend on the order in which penalties are applied - with the regulations stating that "grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed."

Mark Webber and Timo Glock will have to start from the pitlane having changed chassis after today's accidents, while Tonio Liuzzi had already received a five place penalty prior to qualifying due to a gearbox change.

Hmm. Would that make a difference? In the end, everyone is going five places back, so surely it wouldn't make a difference, would it? :S

Edit: Apparently it can. Will post up what I think the order will be.

[Tony_sa]

KERS is not an unfair advantage because teams could choose to have it or not. Just like a team can choose if they want a double diffuser or not or if they want wings on their car or if they want to put on turning vanes. The non KERS teams decided it was an advantage not to have it, the KERS teams decided it was an advantage to have it. If all the teams believe they are getting an advantage how can it be unfair?

ok frosty - time to put this issue to rest. Lets not use the word 'unfair' anymore coz u right bcos teams had a right to make a decision on whether or not to use it. It does however put Vettel at a disadvantage where hammie is concerned at the start of the grid becoz he does not have kers. does that sound about right ??

[Tony_sa]

A definitive grid for the Japanese Grand Prix will be issued prior to the race on Sunday morning.

Title rivals Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button, Force India's Adrian Sutil and Renault's Fernando Alonso have all been given five-place penalties for failing to slow sufficiently under yellow flags for Sebastien Buemi's accident in Q2. The Toro Rosso driver was also penalised for dragging his damaged car back to the pits.

Although provisional grids have been circulated, a firm decision on the starting order has yet to be made, as the positions will depend on the order in which penalties are applied - with the regulations stating that "grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed."

Mark Webber and Timo Glock will have to start from the pitlane having changed chassis after today's accidents, while Tonio Liuzzi had already received a five place penalty prior to qualifying due to a gearbox change.

Hmm. Would that make a difference? In the end, everyone is going five places back, so surely it wouldn't make a difference, would it? :S

Edit: Apparently it can. Will post up what I think the order will be.

cool thanx - you a star