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[stonemonkey]

Is this the final grid then? - just that Lee Mckenzie is saying this

LeeMcK The official grid will be announced tomorrow morning 10am by the FIA. Kov changing gear box, Webber engine, Glock unlikely to race[/quote

That's normal. It's effectively a provisional grid until the formation lap begins, really. Autosport have likely just worked it out from the penalties issued already.

fair enough

Looking good for a Vettle win tomorrow then, perhaps Lewis can KERS him tho and stay ahead.

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

Of course its fair, it's not the KERS teams fault for the other teams CHOOSING not to use the technology!

And is part of the reason why the KERS teams aren't in the championship running, some advantage it's given this seaason

[Denthúl]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.

How you figure ??

Using the technology alters the balance of your car (as seen by Fisichella's move from FI to Ferrari), adds weight to your package, introduces a new system that can be unreliable, costs you a lot more money and requires the driver to think more. As bud already said, nobody forced the other teams to not use it, so they can't complain. Additionally, they have more money to devote to other resources, as well as having a better-balanced and lighter car.

[bud]

Is this the final grid then? - just that Lee Mckenzie is saying this

LeeMcK The official grid will be announced tomorrow morning 10am by the FIA. Kov changing gear box, Webber engine, Glock unlikely to race[/quote

That's normal. It's effectively a provisional grid until the formation lap begins, really. Autosport have likely just worked it out from the penalties issued already.

fair enough

Looking good for a Vettle win tomorrow then, perhaps Lewis can KERS him tho and stay ahead.

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

Of course its fair, it's not the KERS teams fault for the other teams CHOOSING not to use the technology!

And is part of the reason why the KERS teams aren't in the championship running, some advantage it's given this seaason

im not denying that, though im sick of hearing people (drivers included) whinge about the special button!

[Tony_sa]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.


How you figure ??

Because everyone has the choice of whether to use it or not. I don't like KERS, but it's not unfair.

ok .. so your only reasoning here is coz its allowed by the rules so the advantage the kers system brings is non existant ?? or are you saying the teams that dont have the system is to blame for the disadvantage they are suffering. and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

[bud]

Tony its clear as day i know what i am talking about but you on the other hand... well that speaks for itself!

Please continue to prove me right!

[JamesD89]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.

How you figure ??

Using the technology alters the balance of your car (as seen by Fisichella's move from FI to Ferrari), adds weight to your package, introduces a new system that can be unreliable, costs you a lot more money and requires the driver to think more. As bud already said, nobody forced the other teams to not use it, so they can't complain. Additionally, they have more money to devote to other resources, as well as having a better-balanced and lighter car.

I get what you're saying Denthul and the arguements been had out in full a lot of times on here. I understand Tony's frustration though, when 2 teams have it and the rest don't, it's like they're driving in different classes that happen to even out come the end of the race. There are no fair fight's on track, all overtaking with KERS cars is a non event.

[Tony_sa]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.

How you figure ??

Using the technology alters the balance of your car (as seen by Fisichella's move from FI to Ferrari), adds weight to your package, introduces a new system that can be unreliable, costs you a lot more money and requires the driver to think more. As bud already said, nobody forced the other teams to not use it, so they can't complain. Additionally, they have more money to devote to other resources, as well as having a better-balanced and lighter car.

I get what you're saying Denthul and the arguements been had out in full a lot of times on here. I understand Tony's frustration though, when 2 teams have it and the rest don't, it's like they're driving in different classes that happen to even out come the end of the race. There are no fair fight's on track, all overtaking with KERS cars is a non event.

someone with brains and absolute ability to think !!

[bud]

end of the day James the teams that dont have it made that choice did they not?

[Amanda]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.


How you figure ??

Because everyone has the choice of whether to use it or not. I don't like KERS, but it's not unfair.

ok .. so your only reasoning here is coz its allowed by the rules so the advantage the kers system brings is non existant ?? or are you saying the teams that dont have the system is to blame for the disadvantage they are suffering. and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I didn't say it doesn't give them an "advantage" in some situations, I said that it wasn't "unfair" because everyone has the option to use it. If certain teams choose not to then they have no right to complain when they are overtaken by, or are stuck behind, a KERS car. Denthul made some valid points. There are disadvantages to KERS as well as advantages.

[Denthúl]

and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

I often find that bud does know what he's talking about and the same is true in this case. Yes, the KERS cars get a horsepower advantage for six seconds per lap, however if they want to go for the same amount of laps as a non-KERS car then they end up with a heavier car, which effectively negates most of the KERS advantage. Fact is, it's like turbo engines back in the day. Not all teams used them, but it wasn't unfair that some teams did. Or in the late '80s/early '90s where some cars had V8s, some had V10s and some had V12s. It was not unfair to use any of those over the others. The regulations allow you to do something, doing it doesn't make it unfair.

[stonemonkey]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.


How you figure ??

Because everyone has the choice of whether to use it or not. I don't like KERS, but it's not unfair.

ok .. so your only reasoning here is coz its allowed by the rules so the advantage the kers system brings is non existant ?? or are you saying the teams that dont have the system is to blame for the disadvantage they are suffering. and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

Brawn and Red Bull made an early decision that KERS wasn't to their advantage, looks like it was the right decision to me. By your logic you could've said that the non KERS teams had an unfair advantage at the start of the season and that the championship is going to be won due to that.

[bud]

Thats the reason why I am glad kers is going - unfair advantage by the kers cars. Vettel needs this win !!

KERS isn't an unfair advantage.


How you figure ??

Because everyone has the choice of whether to use it or not. I don't like KERS, but it's not unfair.

ok .. so your only reasoning here is coz its allowed by the rules so the advantage the kers system brings is non existant ?? or are you saying the teams that dont have the system is to blame for the disadvantage they are suffering. and Denthul ,, bud dont know what he talking about so no way you can use his input that in this case dont even carry any weight. the extra hp provided by the system puts the teams at a disadvantage that dont have it. simple as that. whats so difficult to understand ??

Brawn and Red Bull made an early decision that KERS wasn't to their advantage, looks like it was the right decision to me. By your logic you could've said that the non KERS teams had an unfair advantage at the start of the season and that the championship is going to be won due to that.

Yep all that sacrifice for possible future cars in future seasons all for nothing now! left Lewis without a chance at defending his title nor did it make Felipe or Kimi at a chance to get it back.

[Tony_sa]

Bottomline Amanda - thats what i am looking at. what it does on the track and the "unfair advantage " it has over the competitors.
That is why I said the system had to be mandatory.

[JamesD89]

end of the day James the teams that dont have it made that choice did they not?

Yes is the answer to your question.

But on the driver, not on the team, it's unfair. From their point of view when ol' Mr KERS comes past, eyes closed if he wants, and they have to spend a boring race behind them trying to take the lead back in the pit stops... it's just rubbish.

If they all had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. If nobody had KERS, it would be fair on everyone. As long as we get one of those situations next year, people won't be so bothered by it.

[Amanda]

Bottomline Amanda - thats what i am looking at. what it does on the track and the "unfair advantage " it has over the competitors.
That is why I said the system had to be mandatory.

But it's not "unfair". I can accept that it may be an advantage but to say that it's unfair is clearly wrong when everyone had the choice to use it or not.