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[Denthúl]

Hmm, upon reading that again, it's not like Mercedes have to detune their engine if they don't want to...could be interesting to see how this unfolds.

No I think you have to read it as IF the teams/FIA decide to do it, then Mercedes (or any other engine manufacturer) will have to detune.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I would assume that all teams and manufacturers would have to agree to it, therefore Mercedes could say no, and the Mercedes-powered teams could say no.

[Tony_sa]

well quite frankly, the hands of everybody has been tied with the engine freeze and merc found a way around the rules to get some more power out of the merc motor. engine development was frozen for the same reason or situation we have here now however the tables now have turned where the reds (and others) are lagging behind.
My only problem with this is that especially mclaren is benefitting from the advancement and that for me is a serious issue.
F1 is about driver against driver - engine against engine with the intention to see who comes up with the best motor as technology advances. who wants to watch a stupid race where engines ( already governed to 18000 rpm ) are now restricted on hp output as well.

Ofcourse dumbo would like it as long as the silver cars wins. thats really stoopid !! Formula 1 is going the way of that other s*** where everybody is using a red car engine. maybe we should do it here as well - use red car engines i mean. .. and while my guy is recovering I dont care if every driver goes the way of that crazy snot crashing out for no reason this past race.
On the other side of the coin I do take my hat off for the silver people for finding their problem and improving on their form coz some of their fans started to migrate to the red side and we had to beat them up coz we didnt like their hoyty toyty attitude. but it was fun........ laterz

[bud]

Hmm, upon reading that again, it's not like Mercedes have to detune their engine if they don't want to...could be interesting to see how this unfolds.

No I think you have to read it as IF the teams/FIA decide to do it, then Mercedes (or any other engine manufacturer) will have to detune.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I would assume that all teams and manufacturers would have to agree to it, therefore Mercedes could say no, and the Mercedes-powered teams could say no.

I hope so, its rubbish telling someone they're doing too good a job and to bring them back to the rest of the pack.

[FerrariFan63]

I'm guessing that engine manufacturers were allowed to modify the engines for the stated purpose of improving longevity when the engine usage rules where changed, and Mercedes managed to slip in some power and other updates when they did so.

There are estimates made of engine power, which used to be publicised quite frequently. I wonder if anyone's still estimating engine power, and if so, how much the engines have advanced since the engine freeze started.

[Tony_sa]

I'm guessing that engine manufacturers were allowed to modify the engines for the stated purpose of improving longevity when the engine usage rules where changed, and Mercedes managed to slip in some power and other updates when they did so.

There are estimates made of engine power, which used to be publicised quite frequently. I wonder if anyone's still estimating engine power, and if so, how much the engines have advanced since the engine freeze started.

they are dynamically tested - almost the same way like hp output is checked at the prop of a outboard. I think its stupid to restrict engine development in F1.
we will now never know who really has the best motor. MM had a point but more confused himself getting the message accross. put up a budget cap and do what you want as long as you dont go over it or else you out for the rest of the season. simple as that.

[Jabberwocky]

I think the way forward is to restrict fuel flow to the engine. that way fuel economy is the buzz word. more power for less fuel everyone is a winner in this horrible green time.

[bud]

horrible green time.

huh?

[Tony_sa]

I think the way forward is to restrict fuel flow to the engine. that way fuel economy is the buzz word. more power for less fuel everyone is a winner in this horrible green time.

you quite right.. without having to refuel the team with the lowest fuel usage will benefit with a lighter car. but not restricting fuel - simply being more fuel efficient.

[FerrariFan63]

they are dynamically tested - almost the same way like hp output is checked at the prop of a outboard. I think its stupid to restrict engine development in F1.
we will now never know who really has the best motor. MM had a point but more confused himself getting the message accross. put up a budget cap and do what you want as long as you dont go over it or else you out for the rest of the season. simple as that.

They are dynamically tested in the factory, but people who publish figures in magazines have to use less direct methods to estimate power.

If they wanted to equalise engines, a useful step would be to limit the amount of fuel available so that manufacturers can't make more powerful engines by dint of burning more fuel. It would then be more difficult for one team to make a significantly more powerful engine. I've heard that for really high performance engines, burning efficiency is close to the believed maximum, and more powerful engines typically are those that can burn more fuel. Limit fuel, and it should equalise engines.

[Jabberwocky]

horrible green time.

huh?

everyone trying to be green. as in fuel economy/carbon footprints etc

[bud]

horrible green time.

huh?

everyone trying to be green. as in fuel economy/carbon footprints etc

ultimately it is a good thing if you ask me.

[Jabberwocky]

that is why I said to limit fuel flow.

The only reason I dislike it is because there are too many hippys who think that going back to nature is the way forward. Then they get in their 5.0L V8 Land Rover that does 2 miles to the gallon, and find that acceptable.

[Tony_sa]

that is why I said to limit fuel flow.

The only reason I dislike it is because there are too many hippys who think that going back to nature is the way forward. Then they get in their 5.0L V8 Land Rover that does 2 miles to the gallon, and find that acceptable.

you so right with that one as well. like FerrariFan63 said as well. the very different angles to approach this issue and believe me the fia will come with some crazy anouncement some on the fuel and engine power issue. watch that space.»

[FerrariFan63]

you so right with that one as well. like FerrariFan63 said as well. the very different angles to approach this issue and believe me the fia will come with some crazy anouncement some on the fuel and engine power issue. watch that space.»

Yep - limiting total fuel used - simple and straightforward. Whatever the FIA comes up with - complicated, stupid, and doomed to failure.

Why do I feel so confident saying that even though we don't know what the FIA will come up with?

For all the pros and cons argued here, I cannot believe Todt would come up with the stupid half-assed "measures" that we've seen from Mosley and his army of yes-men.

[Tony_sa]

you so right with that one as well. like FerrariFan63 said as well. the very different angles to approach this issue and believe me the fia will come with some crazy anouncement some on the fuel and engine power issue. watch that space.»

Yep - limiting total fuel used - simple and straightforward. Whatever the FIA comes up with - complicated, stupid, and doomed to failure.

Why do I feel so confident saying that even though we don't know what the FIA will come up with?

For all the pros and cons argued here, I cannot believe Todt would come up with the stupid half-assed "measures" that we've seen from Mosley and his army of yes-men.