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[Big Azza]

Funny, I'm sure I logged in on my mobile yesterday and posted something. First of all, i was suspcious. I'm always sympathetic for Nelson. And I believed that this allegation was true. I did not expect for Pat Symonds to be guilty.

I'm left very unsure about Fernando Alonso. And for once, I hope for the best for him. He is no longer #1 on my most hated person list, and in fact, he's probably in my top 5 favourite drivers on the grid.

I'm quite sure Rosberg will be given a victory. I'm not quite sure though, as to how the points will change. I think everyone should go up a place in the race standings, but only be awarded half points. That is fair and does not assume a world champion.

I don't like Briatore, so "Good Riddance." I think Renault will still construct engines, but whether we will have a Renault Works Team next year? I know for sure Red Bull won't buy a Renault engine. They will probably go with Cosworth. But they need to stop with all this BS and stick to a feakin' engine supplyer.

I also say congratulations to Nelson Piquet. The team takes him down, and he brings down the team with him. Who knew a backmarker would have so much power. The little guy got square.

[darwin dali]

Repost: MM has stated that race results won't change after November 30, 2008 - they are set in stone after that day.

[Fact Man]

Both weasels!

So wrong, Bernie is an innocent man!

ALSO IT IS TIME TO DISPEL ANY THOUGHTS THAT ALONSO WAS INVOLVED IN CRASH-GATE

Leaked transcripts put Alonso in the clear on Singapore crash plot

By James Allen

It got lost in the wake of Renault’s announcement today, but according to further leaked material from the prosecution’s dossier into the events surrounding Nelson Piquet’s accident in Singapore last year, the FIA believes that Fernando Alonso knew nothing of the alleged conspiracy.

Alonso won the race thanks to a safety car triggered by Nelson Piquet’s accident, which he alleges was a conspiracy involving senior Renault management.

In summing up a lengthy document detailing the interview and investigations carried out by stewards at the recent Belgian Grand Prix, assisted by the FIA’s Herbie Blash, Lars Osterlind says,

“As regards Mr Alonso and the other engineers, the Stewards have found no evidence to suggest that they knew anything about the plans to cause a deliberate crash on lap 14. Renault’s strategy was aggressive and somewhat unusual but the Stewards do not conclude that individuals at Renault other than NPJ (Piquet), Mr Symonds and possibly Mr Briatore were aware of any crash plan. This position appears to be supported by the documentairy and radio communications evidence provided by Renault.”

Earlier in the document, details of the stewards’ meeting with Alonso are given.

“Mr Alonso was interviewed first. He stated that he knew nothing of any meetings in the lead-up to the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix attended by Mr Briatore, Mr Symonds and NPJ and knew nothing of the alleged plan to cause a deliberate crash.”

Alonso also said that he left strategy decisions to his engineers and that running a short first stint from outside the top ten was merely an attempt to do something different from the cars around him, which is consistent with Pat Symonds’ attitude to race strategy as he’s articulated it to me in the past.

Interestingly, the Stewards’ seemed to come to the conclusion that Pat Symonds was the key to all of this and central to any notion of a plan to crash delberately.

They felt that the combination of his acceptance that a meeting took place at which a crash was discussed, together with his refusal to answer questions, “have led the Stewards to consider it reasonable to conclude that the allegations made by NPJ are in large part, true.”

However, interestingly, they concluded that it is not possible to determine whether Flavio Briatore knew about the plan. He flatly denied it.

Osterlind says, “The Stewards do not consider that they are in a position to draw any definitive conclusion regarding Mr Briatore’s knowledge of involvement.”

It’s all academic now; Both Briatore and Symonds left the Renault team today. On Monday the team will find out what sanction it faces. In my view had they fought this and been found guilty they would have been thrown out of F1.

I am glad that someone on this forum gets it. I like your logic and analysis from other posts too.
I agree that Alonso most likely did not know anything about the crash before the race. But I'm sure he questioned it afterward. So does that make him guilty? No because if he had said anything everyone would be calling him a traitor...he learned his lesson from 2007.
If I were in his shoes I would have done the same thing: keep quiet, don't say a thing and move on. It's not to say that he would have agreed with the plan because I'm sure who else would have accepted to crash and risk their own life and others too.
Also, it seems that FIA could not implicate Flavio directly but he decided to step down a la Ron Dennis to avoid a big sanction.

I guess there is a trend in here...probably MM is trying to get rid of the old bosses in F1 and open up the door to fresh faces and teams who might be willing to go his way. Who knows he might convince some teams to leave the FOTA. Everything is possible in F1 these days.

[myownalias]

I haven't read all 11 pages so I apologise in advance if I am repeating comments.

In the BBC article it is suggested that Renault are likely to get away lightly because the guilty parties, Piquet, Briatore and Symonds have already left the team. I think it'll be a massive miscarriage of justice if Renault get away with it regardless of whether the manufacturer knew about the planned race-fix or not, ignorance is not an excuse. I say this because McLaren fired senior engineer Mike Coughlan as soon as they knew of his involvement in the spygate affair, yet McLaren got fined $100m and docked all their constructors points for that year. If such a punishment isn't forthcoming for Renault then it goes to prove that Formula 1 is highly corrupt and inconsistent!

[bud]

Renault were found guilty of possessing McLaren info and didn't Get penalized they even actually used the info on th joince dampener something that cannot be said about McLarens Stepney Ferrari info! So no I don't think Renault will get arse reamed even though Max has said this is far more serious than spy-gate!

[bud]

Renault were found guilty of possessing McLaren info and didn't Get penalized they even actually used the info on th jounce dampener something that cannot be said about McLarens Stepney Ferrari info! So no I don't think Renault will get arse reamed even though Max has said this is far more serious than spy-gate!

[Big Azza]

I am glad that someone on this forum gets it. I like your logic and analysis from other posts too.
I agree that Alonso most likely did not know anything about the crash before the race. But I'm sure he questioned it afterward. So does that make him guilty? No because if he had said anything everyone would be calling him a traitor...he learned his lesson from 2007.
If I were in his shoes I would have done the same thing: keep quiet, don't say a thing and move on. It's not to say that he would have agreed with the plan because I'm sure who else would have accepted to crash and risk their own life and others too.
Also, it seems that FIA could not implicate Flavio directly but he decided to step down a la Ron Dennis to avoid a big sanction.

I guess there is a trend in here...probably MM is trying to get rid of the old bosses in F1 and open up the door to fresh faces and teams who might be willing to go his way. Who knows he might convince some teams to leave the FOTA. Everything is possible in F1 these days.

I like most of your post, but tell me are you also having the opinion that Nelsinho was the orchestrator in this? (I'm not sure, so I'm not accusing you.) A lot of people on this thread are having a double standard. If most people want the FIA to come down hard on Piquet for his role in crash-gate, then if Fernando Alonso even had the slightest idea of what was going on, the FIA should come down hard on Fernando Alonso. (And I said he's now in my top 5.)

That said, the FIA has a history of setting double standards. Also, Nelsinho isn't entirely the orchestrator, and I'm not saying it's just Symonds and Briatore at fault - but a big part of this has to do with Nelson Sr. Nelsinho didn't dob on Renault, his father did. His father blackmailed Renault. The issues between "Team Piquet" and "Team Renault" are mostly between Piquet Sr. and Mr. Briatore. Nelsinho and Mr.Symonds were stringed along, much like poor Lewis in the Melbourne GP.

When you take into consideration that Nelson had to please the team, his agent, and his father (who has provided funds for Nelsinho his whole life), and then you take into consideration his personal interests, he was under a lot of pressure to conform to the demands of Briatore and Daddy-Dearest.

Also recall that there was no talk of any prospect of new teams in Formula One, so I don't think the idea of being a stakeholder in a team had entered the mind of Piquet Sr.

Nelsinho was under a lot of pressure. I'm sure anyone in their debut season under such pressure would've done what Nelsinho did. I also think Nelsinho is the less guilty out of the 4.

[billindenver]

Piquets been given immunity hasnt he?

Oh yeah he is. So he's going to get off scot-free, having instigated this entire farce in the first place!

If he wasnt in on the planning, Alonso Must have questioned that crash! Everybody else did!Maybe he decided to just shut up ask no questions and take the win. He's proven before that he's not averse to accepting a little help when all else fails.

Well, Piquet crashing in an F1 race isn't exactly rare and neither is a driver getting lucky with the safety car... dunno what you are really getting at with that last sentence though, he may be a whinging baby at times, be he's not a cheat in the same vein as other drivers we've seen over the years.

Back in my home country there's a saying that "Nobody is innocent" referring to the old biblical interpretation that we're all sinners in god's eyes.

Yet another example of how dumb the bible is.

[racechick]

Piquets been given immunity hasnt he?

Oh yeah he is. So he's going to get off scot-free, having instigated this entire farce in the first place!

If he wasnt in on the planning, Alonso Must have questioned that crash! Everybody else did!Maybe he decided to just shut up ask no questions and take the win. He's proven before that he's not averse to accepting a little help when all else fails.

Well, Piquet crashing in an F1 race isn't exactly rare and neither is a driver getting lucky with the safety car... dunno what you are really getting at with that last sentence though, he may be a whinging baby at times, be he's not a cheat in the same vein as other drivers we've seen over the years.

Piquet wasnt the instigator, the guy who asked him to crash was and he wont get off scott free, he's probably finished his F1 career.

Piquet may crash a lot and people may gain from the safety car. Agreed. But those series of events were suspicious to everyone.

Alonso's not a cheat? He had emails on his laptop discussing Ferrari tactics and the FIA deamed that cheating and find Mclaren 100grand!(You'll note I always argued that at the time but it was deamed cheating.)

And my last sentence was referring to Alonso begging McLaren for favours over Lewis when he couldnt beat him on the track and then tantruming and going to the FIA when he didnt get what he wanted...bit like Piquet really.

[FerrariFan63]

So, who is in charge of Renault F1 now?

[bud]

So, who is in charge of Renault F1 now?

Fernando

[awesomerusty]

So, who is in charge of Renault F1 now?

Fernando

Alonso

[Monzilla]

Im waiting to see the results of the investigation...but if Symmonds and Briatore did conspire to fix the race via the Piquet crash then they should go. Renault per se should remain though be excluded from the championship this year and fine a lot of money. Going by the evidence in this thread though, they are guilty of pushing a driver of limited ability into a crash by asking him to drive beyond his limit. That in itself is a serious thing. Risking the life of your driver and that of others on the track is reason for heads to roll.

[JamesD89]

So, who is in charge of Renault F1 now?

Fernando

Alonso

I think he was in charge all along

[SingaporeSling]

That said, the FIA has a history of setting double standards. Also, Nelsinho isn't entirely the orchestrator, and I'm not saying it's just Symonds and Briatore at fault - but a big part of this has to do with Nelson Sr. Nelsinho didn't dob on Renault, his father did. His father blackmailed Renault. The issues between "Team Piquet" and "Team Renault" are mostly between Piquet Sr. and Mr. Briatore. Nelsinho and Mr.Symonds were stringed along, much like poor Lewis in the Melbourne GP.

When you take into consideration that Nelson had to please the team, his agent, and his father (who has provided funds for Nelsinho his whole life), and then you take into consideration his personal interests, he was under a lot of pressure to conform to the demands of Briatore and Daddy-Dearest.

Also recall that there was no talk of any prospect of new teams in Formula One, so I don't think the idea of being a stakeholder in a team had entered the mind of Piquet Sr.

Nelsinho was under a lot of pressure. I'm sure anyone in their debut season under such pressure would've done what Nelsinho did. I also think Nelsinho is the less guilty out of the 4.

If you drive in F1 you should be grown up enough to take responsibility of your own actions. Another quote from another forum,the origins of which I don't know, would suit well for poor Junior : "If you want to play with the Big Dogs you can't pee like a Puppy!"