FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[weiping2007]

Hey can a F1 car design to be faster then the speed of sound, is it possible?
Can it be calculated with a formula?

Thanks

~weiping2007 is here~

[Selcouth_Feline]

Interesting question!

Well, cars can already travel at the speed of sound (I believe Richard Noble was the first to do so in 1983). However, the car weighted around 20,000 pounds so I don't think it would be suited to the tight bends of an F1 circuit!

Also, if my calculations are right, you would be travelling at around 280 metres a second so the F1 drivers would have to have super-human reactions if their cars were that quick.

The fuel consumption has to be pretty poor too to get up to those sorts of speeds.

So, yes, I should think you can design an F1 car to go at the speed of sound, however given current engine regulations and current technology, I don't think it would be possible in today's sport. But in the future? Who knows. Although I have to say that although it would be interesting academically, I don't think an F1 car that travels at the speed of sound would actually be any use in the sport itself...

[ArtHowe]

The speed of sound is about 761 mph. Top speed of a good F1 car currently slightly over 200 mph, so they would have to find at least another 550 mph. As the Weird Cat has already suggested, your question is in the realm of fantasy and is never going to be a reality, if for no other reason than it wouldn't be an F1 car anyway. Besides the drivers would all black out from G-force at the first hint of a bend.

[Selcouth_Feline]

The speed of sound is about 761 mph. Top speed of a good F1 car currently slightly over 200 mph, so they would have to find at least another 550 mph. As the Weird Cat has already suggested, your question is in the realm of fantasy and is never going to be a reality, if for no other reason than it wouldn't be an F1 car anyway. Besides the drivers would all black out from G-force at the first hint of a bend.

Not even sure you'd be able to get a car like that around a corner anyway - not at the speed of sound. And I wouldn't have thought that any of the track straights are long enough for a car to get up to the speed of sound anyway. So really not feasible, other than academically speaking.

And selcouth != weird

[ArtHowe]

"From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]:

Selcouth \Sel"couth\ (s[e^]l"k[=oo]th), adjective [AS. selc[=u][eth], seldc[=u][eth]; seld rare + c[=u][eth] known. See {Uncouth}.] Rarely known; unusual; strange. [Obs.]

[She] wondered much at his so selcouth case. --Spenser"

Did you think it meant something else? Nothing wrong with "weird" anyway... perfectly normal nowadays! Especially in F1.

[weiping2007]

if i am build a model of f1 car(make up with wood)
if i am not wrong the fastest f1 model car in my country travel 1.5 sec in 20m(lame)
and the fastest i seen in the internet is 0.9sec in 20m
and can the f1 model car travel in 0.1-0.5sec in 20m?
can the car be spoiled or broke?

please tell me thanks

[Selcouth_Feline]

"From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]:

Selcouth \Sel"couth\ (s[e^]l"k[=oo]th), adjective [AS. selc[=u][eth], seldc[=u][eth]; seld rare + c[=u][eth] known. See {Uncouth}.] Rarely known; unusual; strange. [Obs.]

[She] wondered much at his so selcouth case. --Spenser"

Did you think it meant something else? Nothing wrong with "weird" anyway... perfectly normal nowadays! Especially in F1.

Ah, I had it down as:

Selcouth sel'kooth, adj - from seldan seldom, and cuth, known

Strange; unfamiliar; marvellous. Combining the sense of strangeness with that of wonder, selcouth is a self-referential word, being both marvellous and entirely unfamiliar.

Not quite weird - but hey, the hat fits anyway Never thought that it derived from the same place as uncouth, even though it's blatantly obvious lol.

[weiping2007]

do the downforce effect the speed of the f1 car?
and how to calculate the f1 car speed?

[mudd]

do the downforce effect the speed of the f1 car?
and how to calculate the f1 car speed?

From what I understand aerodynamic drag increases proprotionally to the square of your speed, that is you double the speed you quadruple the drag, however F1 cars are pretty efficient so it does affect the spead but not nearly as much as a road car.

Look at tracks like monza where the rear wings a basically flat (low downforce - higher top speed) compared to street tracks where they are max downforce, so once again it does affect speed.

[weiping2007]

...can you write down the formula?
i kind of not so understand what are you talking about...
sorry...
my influence in english not so good....
sorry

[Selcouth_Feline]

Have you had a look at this article: http://www.forumula1.com/2006/f1/featur ... odynamics/ ?

[weiping2007]

p + 1/2 r v2+ rgh = some constant

p = Pressure
r = Density of fluid
v = Velocity of fluid
g = Acceleration due to Gravity
h = Height of fluid above some reference point

what is that "some constant"?

[ArtHowe]

p + 1/2 r v2+ rgh

what is that "some constant"?

Apparently "some constant" = p +1/2r v2+rgh... what could be plainer than that? Seriously weiping, I think you are going to have to enlist the help of an aerodynamics engineer to tackle your problem. I doubt anyone on this board has much more idea what it's all about than you do. I also don't think you'll have much chance of actually understanding what its all about unless you have a good grounding in Physics and Mathematics.

[Selcouth_Feline]

Some constant = a figure which will remain constant as all the other figures in the equation change. It can't be given as an exact figure in the text because the constant will change dependent on the situation.

So, once you have worked out what your constant is,if you then find that the pressure increases, you will find that the other variables on the left hand side of the equation will also change so that the left hand side balances with the right hand side (ie it doesn't matter what happens on the LHS, the RHS will remain a constant).

As ArtHowe says though, I think you may need someone with better knowledge than we can provide here on the forum. I think a couple of us have a good grounding in physics/mathematics, however I don't think anyone here is an aerodynamics expert, and that is what you need.

[stonemonkey]

The only cars to traver faster than sound have been powered with jet engines, that may cause more problems than they already have while trying to closely follow another car. Also they have solid metal wheels as rubber tyres would just melt so I doubt they have much grip for cornering.

Check this for some info on drag.
http://insideracingtechnology.com/tech102drag.htm