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[darwin dali]

Probably the most impressive progress of all teams in 2007 was made at the Hinwil-based BMW-Sauber squad. Because the current car has been performing so well, they're actually ahead of schedule with development and have switched focus to the 2008 car entirely now. This promises even better things for the next season and I wouldn't be surprised if they'll be able to fight for wins on a regular basis. With McLaren in hot water and a bit crippled, BMW-Sauber is bound to take over second spot from them (based on performance and not just by FIA decision). Will they be able to challenge Ferrari?
I think it depends on decisions being made in the next couple months re. personnel at Ferrari, say drivers line-up, and RB coming back or not, JT staying and providing continuity.
Also, I'm not sure that NH and RK are the best BMW-Sauber could get for their money - I don't think they have the required 'killer instinct' to successfully complete a year-long title campaign. I would like to see FM paired up with NH next year or FM and NR.

[texasmr2]

I agree that BMW-Sauber is on the verge of great thing's even more so than what they have shown this year. Nick and Robert are showing great promise, I REALLY like Robert's motivation and skill as he will scrap with anyone if he is faster.

[7UpJordan]

Next year they could become the dominant team all of a sudden out of the blue, they've really kept their heads down and been professional all year.

[ArtHowe]

Hang on a minute Dali! Before the Mad Max crap, Ferrari were not the top team. I agree that BMW look stronger and stronger but it's Ferrari who should be wetting their nappies (diapers for our US cousins). I welcome all fair competition, bring it on! I'd love to see a three, four or five way fight in 2008... the more the merrier and the better for F1. The McLaren fine is hardly what I'd call crippling. It's more like a inconvenience. The only thing that is likely to screw McLaren next year, besides another dastardly FIA plot, is having Alonso on board. Somehow, thank God, I don't think that is likely to happen.

[racechick]

Mosely is already plannig "dastardly plot part2".

[darwin dali]

I said a bit crippled and didn't just mean the money (if you think they can pay it out of their postage purse, then why were McLaren supporters clamoring it's too high?). Anyway, I was also referring to pitlane 'inconveniences' and the fact that they will be under scrutiny more so than any other team. Crippled also by losing FA's experience and ruthless ambition to fight everybody incl. teammate. Face it, whoever they'll pair up with LH, it's not going to be as dynamic and performance driven a collaboration (or lack of it).
I'd be really surprised if McLaren could keep their form up next year - I seriously doubt they can lift the constructors' title due to the weakness/lack of experience of the new driver (whoever that might be) compared to FA. The drivers' championship 'might' still be an option for LH if he has another great year and McLaren provide a very good car - but then again, BMW-Sauber will undoubtedly steal some important points from him on tracks where his car doesn't perform that well, however the same may apply to the Ferrari drivers (whoever THAT might be) and BMW-Sauber might steal points from them as well...

[texasmr2]

Vey well put and one thing about McLaren is their competitiveness seem's to fluctuate so dramatically especially being one of the top team's for so long.

[ArtHowe]

Dali: Please explain, is "a bit crippled" a bit like being a bit dead? You are either crippled or not crippled. Loosing your legs mid thigh or your arms might be described as 25% crippled, is that a "bit" crippled or crippled. If the fine doesn't impair their performance, I don't see the problem and I believe that McLaren have very deep pockets, with a little help from their friends.

Texas: Surely the whole point of any competitive sport is that fortunes fluctuate. There will come a time, believe it or not, when Ferrari are not worth diddley-squat in the arena. The same will happen to McLaren... fortunes will fluctuate and unheard of names will become giants. In the meantime, both you guys seem to be writing off the one team that has added a little spice to the recipe this season.

And that just seems to argue a mean spirited bias towards a status quo. Which is Ferrari at all costs regardless of interesting racing... a bit like Mad Max and his hirelings.

[darwin dali]

Merriam-Webster online dictionary - one of the two meanings of crippled:
to deprive of capability for service or of strength, efficiency, or wholeness <an economy crippled by inflation>

[ArtHowe]

Fine, so how have McLaren been "crippled"?
Oh, and by the way, does Mariam Webster have a definition for "a bit crippled"?

[cap-dude]

I think mclaren might suffer a little, but they are a strong team, they're not about to just go down easily.

But BMW the story of the year, lets just hopes its not another Honda moment next year.

I think Kubica is brilliant, I love his driving, he is right now one of my favourite drivers. So if I saw him with Massa at BMW I'd be an all out BMW fan. It would mean seeing Nick go, and I don't think Nick is about to leave any time soon, at least not till he wins a race or two.

But BMW have more room for improvement than Ferrari does so they could catch them next year and they've got the most powerful computers in the paddock. Trust me, BMW are going up in the top teams, and not coming down any time soon. Plus I hear its actually the '08 car they are ahead with, if so, I'm cheering them on right now.

Kubica/Massa WDC

[texasmr2]

Texas: Surely the whole point of any competitive sport is that fortunes fluctuate. There will come a time, believe it or not, when Ferrari are not worth diddley-squat in the arena. The same will happen to McLaren... fortunes will fluctuate and unheard of names will become giants. In the meantime, both you guys seem to be writing off the one team that has added a little spice to the recipe this season.

I understand what you are saying my friend. I was just voicing my outlook concerning McLaren's tendency to fluctuate between being a mid-pack team or a front running team on a yearly basis when other team's seem to go in 2-3 year spurt's. I have witnessed this first hand for 30+yr's and honestly it kind of baffle's me as to why?

Hey if I'm not pulling for Ferrari I pull for McLaren, Lewis NOT Fernando, but then again I tend to recognize who is "on their game" so to speak and will pull for them. Yes I support Ferrari 110% but if they are out classed by another team on a given day I can and will be happy with that team's success.

[TheDarkSide10]

The Idea of supporting a team is that you want them to do well regardless of how succesfull or not they are.

BMW POWERED BY HEIDFELD.

HEIDFELD POSSIBLY THE GREATEST DRIVER OF THE LAST DECADE NEVER TO BE GIVEN A REALLY GOOD CHANCE

HEIDFELD POSSIBLY THE BEST DRIVER OF THE CURRENT GRID!

[darwin dali]

I like that you used the qualifier 'possibly' in your shouting

[TheDarkSide10]

Yeah well it beats the english of the thread " that speaks montoya" every time I read it I am in tears with laughter, mabye the guy that started that thread was foreign?