FORUMula1.com

[7UpJordan]

The engines are free it just costs Williams 15 million a year to get the camshafts for it.

the toyota engine must be bad for williams to want out. but then again they do always seem to blame the engine for their woes

They do? Although i wouldn't be surprised if the Toyota engine is less powerful than the Mercs, Ferraris etc, it is pretty reliable. Don't think they've had a single failure since 2007...

And plus Sir Frank has commented on how solid the Toyota engine has been.

I think Williams want a Renault or Merc because of their compatability with KERS.

[Frosty]

I expect it will probably be the Renault engine but if they have any sense they would try and get the Merc one.

I wish they wouldn't. Mercedes engines are set to be with three or four teams next year already...

Besides, the Renault engine is more or less on-par after its winter upgrade.

I agree it would be bad to have to many teams with same engine. Renault is probably on par with performance but it does not have the reliability of the the Merc engine I also think the Merc engine doesn't need to be cooled as much so thats better for aero such as smaller sidepods.

[scotty]

I expect it will probably be the Renault engine but if they have any sense they would try and get the Merc one.

I wish they wouldn't. Mercedes engines are set to be with three or four teams next year already...

Besides, the Renault engine is more or less on-par after its winter upgrade.

I agree it would be bad to have to many teams with same engine. Renault is probably on par with performance but it does not have the reliability of the the Merc engine I also think the Merc engine doesn't need to be cooled as much so thats better for aero such as smaller sidepods.

Yep, and crucially next season, it is supposed to have the best fuel consumption...

[McLaren Fan]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

[f1usa]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

[7UpJordan]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

Whilst Sir Frank has been commenting that the Toyota unit has been solid and great off the line, something just came back into my mind...

Both Toyota and Williams have regularly been way down the speed trap figures this year. I wonder if Williams feel that they are being hindered by a low top speed from the Toyota engine?

[Frosty]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

BTW McLaren are against having KERS next season and if Williams think they can get a KERS system from Mercedes or Renault along with the engine then they need to think again.

[Jensonb]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

BTW McLaren are against having KERS next season and if Williams think they can get a KERS system from Mercedes or Renault along with the engine then they need to think again.

Obviously you missed the part about Williams having their own KERS. That's why they're so interested in running it. They just need a KERS-capable engine

Also, please don't say "KERS System", it breaks my heart.

[Frosty]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

BTW McLaren are against having KERS next season and if Williams think they can get a KERS system from Mercedes or Renault along with the engine then they need to think again.

Obviously you missed the part about Williams having their own KERS. That's why they're so interested in running it. They just need a KERS-capable engine

Also, please don't say "KERS System", it breaks my heart.

Haha I just realised that I'm saying Kinetic Energy Recovery System System my bad my bad. From what i've read there were a few minor modifications to the engine to run KERS with it but it was specific to the McLaren KERS which is very different to the Williams one i'm not sure how compatible they would be considering the nature of the Williams system I bet it would screw up weight distribution big time. Also a supply from Mercedes or Renault or Ferrari may have strings attached like you can have our engine but if you do you can't run any KERS on your car.

[darwin dali]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

BTW McLaren are against having KERS next season and if Williams think they can get a KERS system from Mercedes or Renault along with the engine then they need to think again.

McLaren are not principally against KERS, but they stay with FOTA's line for unity reasons.

[Frosty]

Toyota's engines aren't getting the job done. And I suspect there is some tension between Toyota and Williams over the whole FOTA and KERS situation.

I'm sure Williams would not mind a Mercedes unit in their cars, but I'm completely against Mercedes engines being used by more teams. It's basically going to be a standard engine through the back door.

Finally, as soon as Toyota are dropped, Nakajima will probably follow suit. He's another Japanese piece of trash.

The KERS situation is why I believe you will see a Williams Mercedes. Both Williams and McLaren would like to run KERS in 2010 but, Williams has to give up something. Could a driver swap of Niko and Heikki be part of a deal to get the best engine in F1.

BTW McLaren are against having KERS next season and if Williams think they can get a KERS system from Mercedes or Renault along with the engine then they need to think again.

McLaren are not principally against KERS, but they stay with FOTA's line for unity reasons.

Yeah I agree with that.

[myownalias]

How exactly does KERS work? I was under the impression that the battery/flywheel when released directly powered the rear wheels. Does it run through the engine to delivery the extra 80bhp? If it does put extra power directly to the rear wheels then KERS has nothing to do with engine Williams may acquire next season!

And I fully expect KERS to be more widespread next season, if Williams run their KERS next year, McLaren will almost certainly follow suit given the advantage it has given them in the past two races. Then it's inevitable that Ferrari will use KERS then suddenly the whole gentlemans agreement to not use KERS will collapse.

[Frosty]

How exactly does KERS work? I was under the impression that the battery/flywheel when released directly powered the rear wheels. Does it run through the engine to delivery the extra 80bhp? If it does put extra power directly to the rear wheels then KERS has nothing to do with engine Williams may acquire next season!

And I fully expect KERS to be more widespread next season, if Williams run their KERS next year, McLaren will almost certainly follow suit given the advantage it has given them in the past two races. Then it's inevitable that Ferrari will use KERS then suddenly the whole gentlemans agreement to not use KERS will collapse.

I thought the motor/generator was attached to the engine to me this makes sense as then the power still goes through the gear box if u get me. I just found an Interesting fact that Zytek makes a lot of the stuff for the McLaren KERS I knew that Zytek had been developing a KERS for a team since January but i never found out who i assumed it was for a smaller team who was not using it. I'm amazed it was actually for McLaren BTW i live 100 meters away from Zytek's engine development factory maybe i shall try a visit see if i can get more info.

[myownalias]

How exactly does KERS work? I was under the impression that the battery/flywheel when released directly powered the rear wheels. Does it run through the engine to delivery the extra 80bhp? If it does put extra power directly to the rear wheels then KERS has nothing to do with engine Williams may acquire next season!
And I fully expect KERS to be more widespread next season, if Williams run their KERS next year, McLaren will almost certainly follow suit given the advantage it has given them in the past two races. Then it's inevitable that Ferrari will use KERS then suddenly the whole gentlemans agreement to not use KERS will collapse.

I thought the motor/generator was attached to the engine to me this makes sense as then the power still goes through the gear box if u get me. I just found an Interesting fact that Zytek makes a lot of the stuff for the McLaren KERS I knew that Zytek had been developing a KERS for a team since January but i never found out who i assumed it was for a smaller team who was not using it. I'm amazed it was actually for McLaren BTW i live 100 meters away from Zytek's engine development factory maybe i shall try a visit see if i can get more info.

I'm not surprised that McLaren outsourced as it's much cheaper to outsource than develop in-house as they would probably need to hire a specialist in energy recovery and that wouldn't be cheap. The only advantage to having the KERS system made in-house would be the sole rights to the product to sell on to third parties. Depending on how the agreement was written, Zytek could have the rights to sell KERS to any F1 team and even the commercial car market and McLaren can do nothing about it!

[darwin dali]

How exactly does KERS work? I was under the impression that the battery/flywheel when released directly powered the rear wheels. Does it run through the engine to delivery the extra 80bhp? If it does put extra power directly to the rear wheels then KERS has nothing to do with engine Williams may acquire next season!
And I fully expect KERS to be more widespread next season, if Williams run their KERS next year, McLaren will almost certainly follow suit given the advantage it has given them in the past two races. Then it's inevitable that Ferrari will use KERS then suddenly the whole gentlemans agreement to not use KERS will collapse.

I thought the motor/generator was attached to the engine to me this makes sense as then the power still goes through the gear box if u get me. I just found an Interesting fact that Zytek makes a lot of the stuff for the McLaren KERS I knew that Zytek had been developing a KERS for a team since January but i never found out who i assumed it was for a smaller team who was not using it. I'm amazed it was actually for McLaren BTW i live 100 meters away from Zytek's engine development factory maybe i shall try a visit see if i can get more info.

I'm not surprised that McLaren outsourced as it's much cheaper to outsource than develop in-house as they would probably need to hire a specialist in energy recovery and that wouldn't be cheap. The only advantage to having the KERS system made in-house would be the sole rights to the product to sell on to third parties. Depending on how the agreement was written, Zytek could have the rights to sell KERS to any F1 team and even the commercial car market and McLaren can do nothing about it!

I think McLaren has a good enough legal department working for them to have come up with a contract that's good for them...