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[myownalias]

Would Vettel be the power his is now if he was thrown in at the deep end at Renault, McLaren or Ferrari?

He was thrown right in at the deep at BMW my friend and displayed his class straight away.

Damn my memory is hazy today ... I completely forgot about BMW... But my point still stands as BMW were an emerging team at the time and I believe Mario Theissen to be a more supportive team principle unlike Briatore who has always favoured his golden boys Schumacher and Alonso, all his other drivers had to fend for themselves!

[Gilles 27]

You could say the same thing about Kovalainen. His confidence has been shot to pieces since his arrival in F1 at both Renault and McLaren and I'm sure that's why he's not as positive in races as he should be. Thing is with Vettel and Kovalainen that separates them from Piquet is that they have both shown some genuine pace and Piquet never did. I don't mind a guy dnf ing all the time if he's fast because reliability will come with experience but Piquet is just plain slow, that's the worst thing.

Renault Yes, But Mclaren not sure, I don't the Mclaren is the type of team to shoot its drivers down especialy considering how positive Martin was about Hekki in 08

I completely agree about McLaren. In fact, one of the things which occasionally annoys me about McLaren (though I can understand why the team do it) is that they take a lot of the blame on themselves, shielding their drivers.

Yup true, what i meant about McLaren is that there was no question from the very start about him being an equal number one driver with Lewis, he was always going to be a number 2 and i think that mentality has set in, with Heikki resigning himself to that position. My impression from GP2 was that Heikki was faster than both Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton and while there is a big step up from GP2 to F1, I don't think Heikki has been in the right environment in F1 to utilise this speed.

[EwanM]

I also agree with Mclaren Fan: To give them credit, Mclaren keep things as internal as possible.

However I would be inclined to agree with Giles over the idea of Kovalainen being "unofficial number 2"

I suppose though, his results haven't really helped his case otherwise.

[Gilles 27]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

[EwanM]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

[Gilles 27]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

To my mind, i see a decline in his race performances from 2005 to now as he has resigned himself to the number two position. I'm positive that confidence is all it is because he has out-paced Hamilton in quali before, got on top of his setup earlier than Hamilton on occasion and was a terrific racer in GP2, winning several races from unlikely grid positions.
I don't really blame McLaren, i think the damage was done by Renault, Flav and the Piquets

[Brandz]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

To my mind, i see a decline in his race performances from 2005 to now as he has resigned himself to the number two position. I'm positive that confidence is all it is because he has out-paced Hamilton in quali before, got on top of his setup earlier than Hamilton on occasion and was a terrific racer in GP2, winning several races from unlikely grid positions.
I don't really blame McLaren, i think the damage was done by Renault, Flav and the Piquets

it seems that heikki can out qualify lewis but he never seems to have any where near hamilton's performance levels in the race..

[EwanM]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

To my mind, i see a decline in his race performances from 2005 to now as he has resigned himself to the number two position. I'm positive that confidence is all it is because he has out-paced Hamilton in quali before, got on top of his setup earlier than Hamilton on occasion and was a terrific racer in GP2, winning several races from unlikely grid positions.
I don't really blame McLaren, i think the damage was done by Renault, Flav and the Piquets

DO you think a fresh start might help? Maybe at WIlliams?

[Denthúl]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

To my mind, i see a decline in his race performances from 2005 to now as he has resigned himself to the number two position. I'm positive that confidence is all it is because he has out-paced Hamilton in quali before, got on top of his setup earlier than Hamilton on occasion and was a terrific racer in GP2, winning several races from unlikely grid positions.
I don't really blame McLaren, i think the damage was done by Renault, Flav and the Piquets

DO you think a fresh start might help? Maybe at WIlliams?

I think that would be the best place for him, especially if Nico goes to McLaren.

[darwin dali]

I think Heikki is a confidence driver and i think it's a dirty trick to claim both drivers are given equal status when there is a clear number one and two system in operation. It makes Heikki look worse than he is and is crucially bad for his confidence and stock level.

Yep, I can see where your coming from. He really hasn't pushed on hashe?

To my mind, i see a decline in his race performances from 2005 to now as he has resigned himself to the number two position. I'm positive that confidence is all it is because he has out-paced Hamilton in quali before, got on top of his setup earlier than Hamilton on occasion and was a terrific racer in GP2, winning several races from unlikely grid positions.
I don't really blame McLaren, i think the damage was done by Renault, Flav and the Piquets

DO you think a fresh start might help? Maybe at WIlliams?

I think that would be the best place for him, especially if Nico goes to McLaren.

Yes, me thinks so, too.

[Gilles 27]

Yup he needs to lead a team. There was a lot of pressure on him when he came in because he was expected to be a front runner. I think he needs a team with lower expectations. It might be too late for him tbh. Much as I like him and defend him, McLaren isn't the place for him at the moment, he isn't really doing a good enough job and they aren't doing him any good wither. Williams seems like a good shout to me.

[f1ea]

Would Vettel be the power his is now if he was thrown in at the deep end at Renault, McLaren or Ferrari?

He was thrown right in at the deep at BMW my friend and displayed his class straight away.

Damn my memory is hazy today ... I completely forgot about BMW... But my point still stands as BMW were an emerging team at the time and I believe Mario Theissen to be a more supportive team principle unlike Briatore who has always favoured his golden boys Schumacher and Alonso, all his other drivers had to fend for themselves!

Yeah, but remember, all "we've asked" of Nelson was to give 1 worthy performance. 1 good Q, 1 Good race, 1 great lap... and he wasnt able to do any of them... There are many other drivers that have been able to stay in F1 because they were able to show this promise. Takuma sato for example, Nakajima, even Buemi. And the list goes on... Montoya, for example, he could have been erratic sometimes, but there was always a certain raw speed that was obvious and encouraging (not considering he actually did have a good career, considering how far he could go in the era he raced) etc etc

[7UpJordan]

Kovalainen to Williams? No thank you, I think Sir Frank would rather fight to keep Rosberg than accept a swap with the Finn that doesn't exactly fly.

[Gilles 27]

Williams won't keep Rosberg, they have been lucky to hold on to him for so long. Kovalainen is about the right level for Williams I think. He wouldn't be wasting the car and they wouldn't be holding him back.

[digitaleye]

However, if such a move falls through, do not expect Piquet to be on the Formula One grid anytime soon, unless of course it is as a pay driver.

Hey ,don't knock it, pay drivers are making a comeback, just look at STR with Jaime