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[andy]

During the first hearing, Mclaren's defense was that Coughlan alone held a single (albeit 780 page) document and that none of the information was circulated within the team.

Now it comes out that there were hundreds of calls, texts and emails between Coughlan, PDR & FR. The frequency of which increased around the time of Ferrari tests.

The fact that PDR knew where the info was coming from and even requested specifics is pretty damning wouldn't you say?

[andy]

Also, one of Coughlan's superiors has admitted that Coughlan tried to show him the original document.

This is the point that the FIA think they should have been informed.

[pb]

Although there is no 'hard evidence', based on the number and frequency of the messages and that certain decisions were made, at least one engineer must have been involved.

I think the FIA were correct in saying that there would have been at least some impact, however small, to the 2007 McLaren car and I guess testing the 2008 car is inevitable based on these facts.

The problem is that all this seemingly happened without the majority of McLaren's knowledge. This is something Dennis should stop from happening again, though it's difficult for any company to check what 100% of its employees are up to. What further complicates this is that with most other companies, the individuals involved would be sacked and no penalty would be given to the company, but this is sport and therefore relies on outcomes of races, tainted by this information. In my opinion, the FIA could have possibly allowed McLaren to continue racing in an older, pre-march car and to lose all their constructor points so far. But they chose to stop them gaining any points for the remaining races as well, which will have a knock on effect.

Some may argue that this goes on within most teams and Ferrari has been seen sneaking around garages taking notes, as with many teams, but here they just happened to have a whistle-blower, which made all the difference.

Ultimately, McLaren were found to have been in the wrong due to a small number of staff 'cheating'. The whole company has been punished as a result. Some overly zealous Ferrari fans may say that McLaren themselves are all-over nasty cheating liars, but from the evidence, it's pretty assured that this is not the case. What they do need to do is clean up their house and every other F1 team will need to take note and stop copying from other teams too.

I believe it could well have been any team up before the FIA, but due to circumstances and several people who took it further than usual, it was McLaren. It was bound to happen to one team or another though, and is a clear message to all the teams. Maybe one that is too harsh, but a message none-the-less.

As for the drivers, the FIA were fully justified for not penalising them, as they fully co-operated, but it won't help the feeling between Alonso and the team that he was the one with the emails.

[SerenityX]

Perhaps text messages were not mentioned because they are and were completely inconsequential. It'd have to be one hell of a code for them to share secrets between texts in the small space they're alloted to type.

When was testing done on the car? Wasn't the car basically done and in testing stages in March before the information was even received? The benefit they could've received from this information is minimal, certainly not worth the $100 million and championship ban.

[pb]

Part of the FIA's decision was based on information drivers and crew would have received about team stragegy and things that matter on race day, so there is some justification there.

Some was based on the sheer volume of information held by Coughlan, text messages can quite easily provide small pieces of diagnostic information that can result in changing settings in a car. Whether these did or not, only the FIA know, but I'm assuming there must be something behind them. They may still publish them.

[andy]

The car may well have been ready for testing in March. But F1 teams are constantly updating and improving cars throughout the year. There would have been lots of opportunity to use Ferrari data to improve the Mclaren.

As for texts being inconsequential, if Coughlan texted Stepney on the Friday of a race weekend saying 'What lap is Kimi's first stop'. Then Stepney replies with '18'. I'd say that's a pretty consequential, albeit short, conversation wouldn't you?

[130R]

''The FIA has published a detailed summary of the new evidence that led to Thursday’s decision by the World Motor Sport Council to impose a draconian penalty on McLaren over the spying affair.

In a 14-page document the governing body reveals a trail of email exchanges between Pedro de la Rosa, Fernando Alonso and the team’s suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan which it says contradicts a core element of McLaren’s defence – that confidential Ferrari information was never circulated within the team but was held by a single rogue employee...

Nuff said...

[pit_babe]

''The FIA has published a detailed summary of the new evidence that led to Thursday’s decision by the World Motor Sport Council to impose a draconian penalty on McLaren over the spying affair.

In a 14-page document the governing body reveals a trail of email exchanges between Pedro de la Rosa, Fernando Alonso and the team’s suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan which it says contradicts a core element of McLaren’s defence – that confidential Ferrari information was never circulated within the team but was held by a single rogue employee...

Nuff said...

If these 2 drivers are guilty they should be banned for life from F1

[andy]

FA & PDR are very lucky.

I bet they loved getting the letters telling them that were immune from prosecution.

[darwin dali]

This was a shocking read (the FIA verdict/evidence/explanation) - it went way deeper than I ever thought. This whole affair will taint (and rightly so) McLaren, PdLR and FA for a long time. I'd rather have a team try and push the envelope with some regs, i.e., what McLaren fans and the team McLaren have always accused Ferrari of, namely cheating - ALL teams try to do that to a certain degree, that's where clever engineers spend their spare time with and that's what leads to progress in many areas. But to see this wholesale fraud going on and not reporting it is unethical and disgusting. And ultimately the buck stops at the top: RD has to go! If as he says (and I believe him) he wasn't in it, then he still has the ultimate responsibility for what's going on in his team. If his style of oversight of the team and the way he runs things couldn't prevent this degree of corruption and non-reporting among his employees, then it's time for heads to roll to make way for new and improved approaches.

[bmwpower]

This was a shocking read (the FIA verdict/evidence/explanation) - it went way deeper than I ever thought. This whole affair will taint (and rightly so) McLaren, PdLR and FA for a long time. I'd rather have a team try and push the envelope with some regs, i.e., what McLaren fans and the team McLaren have always accused Ferrari of, namely cheating - ALL teams try to do that to a certain degree, that's where clever engineers spend their spare time with and that's what leads to progress in many areas. But to see this wholesale fraud going on and not reporting it is unethical and disgusting. And ultimately the buck stops at the top: RD has to go! If as he says (and I believe him) he wasn't in it, then he still has the ultimate responsibility for what's going on in his team. If his style of oversight of the team and the way he runs things couldn't prevent this degree of corruption and non-reporting among his employees, then it's time for heads to roll to make way for new and improved approaches

DD what the hell are you talking about?? RD is not a cheater, they didn't gain any advantage over the documents, heck they didn't even used the documents. The FIA is bankrolled by Ferrari and Ferrari was NEVER EVER punished for anything during their F1 career. Don't you remember 1920?? Enzo Ferrari was caught cheating on his 2nd grade exam, no one did anything then and they have been getting away with it ever since.

[tmeury]

Hello all! I'm new to the forum but with all the shenanigans going on right now I'd like to hear more opinions.
I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thread but did anyone watch practice today? They were talking about Alonso "alledgedly" blackmailed McLaren to A) insure he was the #1 driver and be treated that way i.e. allowing wins B) Lewis be off the team by seasons end. If they didn't comply they he would rehatch the investigation. Anyone catch any of this?
Thoughts?

[bmwpower]

I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thread but did anyone watch practice today? They were talking about Alonso "alledgedly" blackmailed McLaren to A) insure he was the #1 driver and be treated that way i.e. allowing wins B) Lewis be off the team by seasons end. If they didn't comply they he would rehatch the investigation. Anyone catch any of this?
Thoughts?

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

[Irv the Swerve]

I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thread but did anyone watch practice today? They were talking about Alonso "alledgedly" blackmailed McLaren to A) insure he was the #1 driver and be treated that way i.e. allowing wins B) Lewis be off the team by seasons end. If they didn't comply they he would rehatch the investigation. Anyone catch any of this?
Thoughts?

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

Its pronounced RUMOURS.

[darwin dali]

Not in the US it's not. It's SPELLED rumors