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[Chris_0648]

I hope someone can explain this to me please!

My understanding is, that as the air passes over the car (or more specifically, the rear wing and diffuser) it emerges "dirtier" than before, This turbulent air then impacts upon a following car and reduces it's grip.

This occurs mostly because the front wing of the following car is unable to generate the same level of aero grip that it could do when running in clean air. Of course, all parts of the car experience a similar effect, but the problem is at its most severe at the front of the car which is why they understeer in the dirty air.

Which made me think, it's all well and good reducing the dirty air so as cars can follow closer, as they are this year. But what mystifies me is that they enlarged the front wing - surely shifting the focus of aero grip to the front of the car increases the reliance on front end grip, and as a result, worsens the dirty air effect when within 3 or 4 tenths of the car in front?

Essentially, what I'm trying to argue is if the front wings had the same dimensions as last year's cars, lack of overtaking wouldn't be such an issue this season, since the cars wouldn't be so reliant on front end grip.

[h-tomek]

It's a little bit tricky. The front wing is enlarged to "catch" some clean air behind the other car cause rear wing is so narrow. I don't know, I'm just guessing. It's difficult to say. Maybe somebody else has a better and more exact explanation.

[bud]

the OWG came up with the current regs with the following reasoning.

increasing the front wing was to capture more downforce at the front. smaller rear wing was to decrease turbulence and the diffuser again played a lesser role

but since the double decker diffuser creates more downforce now the whole OWG work is out the window.

I mean look at McLarens initial MP4 24. it was designed to the letter of the new regs. single plane front wing. no little winglets on the front wing or around the sidepods. while the other teams stretched the regs to the or even beyond the desired limit.

its no fluke that Renault McLaren and Ferrari engineers were in the OWG and are the ones who now have to play catchup.

[EwanM]

the OWG came up with the current regs with the following reasoning.

increasing the front wing was to capture more downforce at the front. smaller rear wing was to decrease turbulence and the diffuser again played a lesser role

but since the double decker diffuser creates more downforce now the whole OWG work is out the window.

I mean look at McLarens initial MP4 24. it was designed to the letter of the new regs. single plane front wing. no little winglets on the front wing or around the sidepods. while the other teams stretched the regs to the or even beyond the desired limit.

its no fluke that Renault McLaren and Ferrari engineers were in the OWG and are the ones who now have to play catchup.

Agreed.

[stonemonkey]

I see what the OP is saying but it was probably worked out that the effects of dirty air would be less than before. I still think the teams will be looking for ways to maximise the turbulance their cars produce with minimal effect on thier own performance. The only way can see of truly countering that would be to ban downforce completely which I doubt will happen although I do like the look of the cars and the way they moved before the wings were introduced.

[bud]

complete ban on downforce? are you Max Mosley?

[stonemonkey]

complete ban on downforce? are you Max Mosley?

Well, ban wings but allow things like the fan car.

[bud]

complete ban on downforce? are you Max Mosley?

Well, ban wings but allow things like the fan car.

that would be interesting

[f1ea]

Turbulence considerably reduces aerodynamic efficiency (ie the total downforce aerodynamicists wish to obtain)... basically because turbulent air produces more energy losses. And the energy lost is less energy available to generate downforce.

The function of the front wing in the prior regs was to channel air as laminar (smooth) as possible so that when this air hit the rear wing the resultant downforce was maximum. Beause this yr the rear wing is smaller, they are using the front wing to generate downforce... as always the smoothness of the air reaching the front wing is important (but for example as the wing's surface area increases, then the ammount lost because of turbulence could become ignorable), this is part of what they wanted to achieve by increasing the size of the front wing... and also the things Bud said in his post above.

[madbrad]

Well they learned a lesson about cleaning the air coming off the back of a car, they just need to keep tweaking that, maybe by getting more strict with rear diffuser design or whatever, and get that exit air cleaned up once and for all.


Or if the air is still too dirty, use an air filter. I would go with K&N.

[f1ea]

Well they learned a lesson about cleaning the air coming off the back of a car, they just need to keep tweaking that, maybe by getting more strict with rear diffuser design or whatever, and get that exit air cleaned up once and for all.

Or if the air is still too dirty, use an air filter. I would go with K&N.

That's why Honda's earth car was always last. The air coming out of it was so clean anyone could overtake it.
Yet another reason for F1 to go green: clean air promotes overtaking. Someone call Mosley. Eureka!

[EwanM]

Well they learned a lesson about cleaning the air coming off the back of a car, they just need to keep tweaking that, maybe by getting more strict with rear diffuser design or whatever, and get that exit air cleaned up once and for all.

Or if the air is still too dirty, use an air filter. I would go with K&N.

That's why Honda's earth car was always last. The air coming out of it was so clean anyone could overtake it.
Yet another reason for F1 to go green: clean air promotes overtaking. Someone call Mosley. Eureka!

Lol I laughed at my friend for wearing a Honda Earth Tshirt last night.

Then I realised in terms of this year the jokes on me...

[f1ea]

Lol I laughed at my friend for wearing a Honda Earth Tshirt last night.
Then I realised in terms of this year the jokes on me...

Last night i watched an episode of Top Gear in which they strap a F1 Honda rear wing on a Renault... it lapped like 1 sec slower with the Honda wing.
LOL no wonder they pulled out

[McLaren Fan]

its no fluke that Renault McLaren and Ferrari engineers were in the OWG and are the ones who now have to play catchup.

Yip.

I think the regulations need to place more emphasis on mechanical grip and ground effect. Knowledge about the latter is much improved since it was basically banned, tracks are much safer and have smoother surfaces, and the cars are much safer.

[The-Stig]

Yip.

I think the regulations need to place more emphasis on mechanical grip and ground effect. Knowledge about the latter is much improved since it was basically banned, tracks are much safer and have smoother surfaces, and the cars are much safer.

Yes the cars may be safer, but think about it. How safe can a machine that's built to drive at over 300 km/h really be?