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[Frosty]

Ferrari and the other rebellious manufacturers have gone too aggressive, too quickly and have played into Mosley's hands by splitting FOTA. If you don't understand why I think they've made a mistake by now, you're never going to.

I don't see how FOTA is split, all the teams within FOTA agree on the fact they don't like the idea of a two tier system so they are united against it. It's not like the teams don't want to negotiate and just want to leave. Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault are all happy to negotiate with the FIA but if they don't get what they want which is a single tier championship then they will leave. There is no split within FOTA.

[Jensonb]

Ferrari and the other rebellious manufacturers have gone too aggressive, too quickly and have played into Mosley's hands by splitting FOTA. If you don't understand why I think they've made a mistake by now, you're never going to.

I don't see how FOTA is split, all the teams within FOTA agree on the fact they don't like the idea of a two tier system so they are united against it. It's not like the teams don't want to negotiate and just want to leave. Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault are all happy to negotiate with the FIA but if they don't get what they want which is a single tier championship then they will leave. There is no split within FOTA.

You mean apart from the fact that at least 3 of them are 2010 F1 Teams and at least 5 of them aren't?

[Frosty]

Ferrari and the other rebellious manufacturers have gone too aggressive, too quickly and have played into Mosley's hands by splitting FOTA. If you don't understand why I think they've made a mistake by now, you're never going to.

I don't see how FOTA is split, all the teams within FOTA agree on the fact they don't like the idea of a two tier system so they are united against it. It's not like the teams don't want to negotiate and just want to leave. Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault are all happy to negotiate with the FIA but if they don't get what they want which is a single tier championship then they will leave. There is no split within FOTA.

You mean apart from the fact that at least 3 of them are 2010 F1 Teams and at least 5 of them aren't?

[EDIT] The fact is all the teams in FOTA are against a two tier F1.

[Jensonb]

Ferrari and the other rebellious manufacturers have gone too aggressive, too quickly and have played into Mosley's hands by splitting FOTA. If you don't understand why I think they've made a mistake by now, you're never going to.

I don't see how FOTA is split, all the teams within FOTA agree on the fact they don't like the idea of a two tier system so they are united against it. It's not like the teams don't want to negotiate and just want to leave. Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault are all happy to negotiate with the FIA but if they don't get what they want which is a single tier championship then they will leave. There is no split within FOTA.

You mean apart from the fact that at least 3 of them are 2010 F1 Teams and at least 5 of them aren't?

[EDIT] The fact is all the teams in FOTA are against a two tier system.

As are all the fans. What's your point? The FOTA position is weakened by the fact that its most powerful members are once again independently flexing their muscles.

[Frosty]

Ferrari and the other rebellious manufacturers have gone too aggressive, too quickly and have played into Mosley's hands by splitting FOTA. If you don't understand why I think they've made a mistake by now, you're never going to.

I don't see how FOTA is split, all the teams within FOTA agree on the fact they don't like the idea of a two tier system so they are united against it. It's not like the teams don't want to negotiate and just want to leave. Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault are all happy to negotiate with the FIA but if they don't get what they want which is a single tier championship then they will leave. There is no split within FOTA.

You mean apart from the fact that at least 3 of them are 2010 F1 Teams and at least 5 of them aren't?

[EDIT] The fact is all the teams in FOTA are against a two tier system.

As are all the fans. What's your point? The FOTA position is weakened by the fact that its most powerful members are once again independently flexing their muscles.

But the fact is the teams are speaking out against the same issues as FOTA has. As I have said before the teams needed to speak out independently before Luca meets Max later this week because if he didn't Max would of simply said you are misrepresenting FOTA and your arguments hold no weight. Now he can't say that because the teams have spoken out and already half the the teams have added their weight to that point.

[Gilles 27]

The Williams, Force India, Brawn brigade are only planning on entering next season under the current cap rules because they think they will be able to steal a march on everyone else. When they realise that this is irrelevant unless some prestigious teams are involved too, they will join the Ferrari, Toyota et al stance and FOTA will be united once more!

[Jensonb]

The Williams, Force India, Brawn brigade are only planning on entering next season under the current cap rules because they think they will be able to steal a march on everyone else. When they realise that this is irrelevant unless some prestigious teams are involved too, they will join the Ferrari, Toyota et al stance and FOTA will be united once more!

No, they're entering because they have no choice. Brawn, Williams and Force India are racing teams. That's it, they have nothing else to fall back on. They cannot realistically threaten to quit.

FOTA needs to be acting as one.

[Gilles 27]

They could go to LMS or something. Personally, that would be my dream, to see all the teams abandon single seater racing and go to LMS, making it the most prestigious race series in the world! I've always thought that endurance racing is the REAL racing and I'd like to see it become more popular and more widely broadcast.

This will never happen obviously, but racing teams in F1 have the option of going to other series. Except Force India, who are blatantly in it for the publicity.

[Jensonb]

They could go to LMS or something. Personally, that would be my dream, to see all the teams abandon single seater racing and go to LMS, making it the most prestigious race series in the world! I've always thought that endurance racing is the REAL racing and I'd like to see it become more popular and more widely broadcast.

This will never happen obviously, but racing teams in F1 have the option of going to other series. Except Force India, who are blatantly in it for the publicity.

Well I like Formula One. I like open wheels, single seats and distance races. But that's just me.

[racechick]

A two tier system will not work, too much room for errors and FIA interpretation of what is an overspend or what is not allowed by an overspender. Fraught with Spagate x100!. Max mosley has to accept that. The manufacturers are prepared to quit over this. I really think they will. In this economic cliumate the manufactures do not need to be spending a fortune to run around a track in a shackled manner. Without the manufacturers F1 will be a shadow of what it now is.Come-one-day gone the next teams will not sustain F1.The big problem here as always, is not the manufacturers it's Max mosely. All that really needs to happen is that a reasonable person is put in charge of the FIA. Seems the FIA dont do reasonable

[Jensonb]

A two tier system will not work, too much room for errors and FIA interpretation of what is an overspend or what is not allowed by an overspender. Fraught with Spagate x100!. Max mosley has to accept that. The manufacturers are prepared to quit over this. I really think they will. In this economic cliumate the manufactures do not need to be spending a fortune to run around a track in a shackled manner. Without the manufacturers F1 will be a shadow of what it now is.Come-one-day gone the next teams will not sustain F1.The big problem here as always, is not the manufacturers it's Max mosely. All that really needs to happen is that a reasonable person is put in charge of the FIA. Seems the FIA dont do reasonable

So you're saying "FOTA should force a Palace Coup and get a Candidate in the October Election"?

That's my preferred solution as well.

[racechick]

A two tier system will not work, too much room for errors and FIA interpretation of what is an overspend or what is not allowed by an overspender. Fraught with Spagate x100!. Max mosley has to accept that. The manufacturers are prepared to quit over this. I really think they will. In this economic cliumate the manufactures do not need to be spending a fortune to run around a track in a shackled manner. Without the manufacturers F1 will be a shadow of what it now is.Come-one-day gone the next teams will not sustain F1.The big problem here as always, is not the manufacturers it's Max mosely. All that really needs to happen is that a reasonable person is put in charge of the FIA. Seems the FIA dont do reasonable

So you're saying "FOTA should force a Palace Coup and get a Candidate in the October Election"?

That's my preferred solution as well.

I dont know what a palace coup is and i dont know if anyone can force Max Moselyto do anything he doesnt want to do (remember how he bought his way out of the whipping farce by bribing FIA members?) He is incompetant but clever. If he can be removed and a president put in place who will purge FIA of corruption and rule fairly then yes of course that would be my prefered option....but we're dealing with Max Mosely here!

[Jensonb]

A two tier system will not work, too much room for errors and FIA interpretation of what is an overspend or what is not allowed by an overspender. Fraught with Spagate x100!. Max mosley has to accept that. The manufacturers are prepared to quit over this. I really think they will. In this economic cliumate the manufactures do not need to be spending a fortune to run around a track in a shackled manner. Without the manufacturers F1 will be a shadow of what it now is.Come-one-day gone the next teams will not sustain F1.The big problem here as always, is not the manufacturers it's Max mosely. All that really needs to happen is that a reasonable person is put in charge of the FIA. Seems the FIA dont do reasonable

So you're saying "FOTA should force a Palace Coup and get a Candidate in the October Election"?

That's my preferred solution as well.

I dont know what a palace coup is and i dont know if anyone can force Max Moselyto do anything he doesnt want to do (remember how he bought his way out of the whipping farce by bribing FIA members?) He is incompetant but clever. If he can be removed and a president put in place who will purge FIA of corruption and rule fairly then yes of course that would be my prefered option....but we're dealing with Max Mosely here!

Max, like all Despots, is his own worst enemy.

[Frosty]

I think Eclestone will make the FIA cave in and negotiate with Ferrari because Eclestone and his company will go down the pan if these teams pull out. Max saying 'we don't need Ferrari' the other day was a load of Bollocks.

[Robert182]

as much as i hate to say it Ferrari is formula1 they are the only team to be there from the very start ! so there is no way bernie will let them just leave .....he would lose a huge amount of fan money ....he wont let that happen no matter what max has said !

im glad team are not standing for the budget crap ..im all for cost cutting (only because of the current economic situation) but no fuel stops..shorter race distances..f1 isnt what it was and im glad teams have made a stand but they teams that have made a stand all have some form of business ot fall back on ....f1 would be very boring with just brawn , williams and force india lol