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[MAD MAX]

They want to get in first b4 Bernie breaksaway

[Jensonb]

No i want a break away because Bernie rips off the teams, and the FIA wants its way or the high way and a two teir system which will not work.

I agree with your sentiment Re: Max and Bernie. But a breakaway is not a good solution. I'm never going to agree with you on that.

Well your team isn't getting money it deserves because of Bernie.

The rules are a mess with this two teir F1.

They arn't listening to FOTA and trying very hard to pull it apart so apart from THREATS like this what other soloution is there?

I don't see everything from the view of a Brawn fan you know. As a fan of Formula One, I do not want to see it being ripped apart by the big boys. Why would I want that? It would be a disaster, a tragedy.

FOTA exists to represent the Teams. All of them. If they want to be united, they should be united. The budget cap is necessary for the survival of almost half the grid, and for the new teams coming in. Those teams can't compete without it. The big teams can trim the fat, the small teams can't magically make up the massive gap in performance. They should all take the cap, but they should collectively sit down with Max and re-negotiate the more preposterous bits of the regs, maybe get a few dispensations written in to help the bigger teams who might need time to shrink their budgets.

Then, little by little, FOTA - standing united - pushes back. They haven't even had a whole season yet. They simply need to stand united for the lowest common denominator. And eventually, Max and Bernie's power will recede.

The manufacturers have not given FOTA enough time to do its job before bursting out on their own. That weakens FOTA, that weakens F1, that solidifes Max and Bernie. The General who sends all his troops into one battle is a failure. The general who leads a guerrilla war of sustained smaller assaults, undermining the enemy, wins.

[Gaz]

No i want a break away because Bernie rips off the teams, and the FIA wants its way or the high way and a two teir system which will not work.

I agree with your sentiment Re: Max and Bernie. But a breakaway is not a good solution. I'm never going to agree with you on that.

Well your team isn't getting money it deserves because of Bernie.

The rules are a mess with this two teir F1.

They arn't listening to FOTA and trying very hard to pull it apart so apart from THREATS like this what other soloution is there?

I don't see everything from the view of a Brawn fan you know. As a fan of Formula One, I do not want to see it being ripped apart by the big boys. Why would I want that? It would be a disaster, a tragedy.

FOTA exists to represent the Teams. All of them. If they want to be united, they should be united. The budget cap is necessary for the survival of almost half the grid, and for the new teams coming in. Those teams can't compete without it. The big teams can trim the fat, the small teams can't magically make up the massive gap in performance. They should all take the cap, but they should collectively sit down with Max and re-negotiate the more preposterous bits of the regs, maybe get a few dispensations written in to help the bigger teams who might need time to shrink their budgets.

Then, little by little, FOTA - standing united - pushes back. They haven't even had a whole season yet. They simply need to stand united for the lowest common denominator. And eventually, Max and Bernie's power will recede.

The manufacturers have not given FOTA enough time to do its job before bursting out on their own. That weakens FOTA, that weakens F1, that solidifes Max and Bernie. The General who sends all his troops into one battle is a failure. The general who leads a guerrilla war of sustained smaller assaults, undermining the enemy, wins.

Yeh but this is just IT by Ferrari doing this it forces Max to the table.

[Jensonb]

Yeh but this is just IT by Ferrari doing this it forces Max to the table.

But what if it doesn't? Max is a stubborn git.

You must understand, I speak only out of fear for the sport.

[Hanwombat]

No frickin way

Sod this

[Gaz]

Yeh but this is just IT by Ferrari doing this it forces Max to the table.

But what if it doesn't? Max is a stubborn git.

You must understand, I speak only out of fear for the sport.

nah he tries to appear stubborn look how quickly they back pedled on the medals idea.

[Jensonb]

Yeh but this is just IT by Ferrari doing this it forces Max to the table.

But what if it doesn't? Max is a stubborn git.

You must understand, I speak only out of fear for the sport.

nah he tries to appear stubborn look how quickly they back pedled on the medals idea.

I don't think he ever liked that idea. He only went with it cos Bernie lied and said the teams were cool with it.

[Frosty]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

[Jensonb]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

Exactly, nobody wins if they quit.

All the parties need to sit down and hash this out.

[scotty]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

Exactly, nobody wins if they quit.

All the parties need to sit down and hash this out.

...and nobody is going to quit! This overreaction is crazy.

[Denthúl]

Yeh but this is just IT by Ferrari doing this it forces Max to the table.

But what if it doesn't? Max is a stubborn git.

You must understand, I speak only out of fear for the sport.

nah he tries to appear stubborn look how quickly they back pedled on the medals idea.

That doesn't really count. It was against regulations for the FIA to impose that system.

The teams should just ask for a £20m increase on the cap and all sign up to it. Life would be far easier from then on.

[Frosty]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

Exactly, nobody wins if they quit.

That's why I think Ferrari either know that the FIA will definitely cave in, or they have a decent back up plan if the FIA say no, such as a break away series. I don't think Ferrari would make this statement without all bases covered.

[Jensonb]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

Exactly, nobody wins if they quit.

That's why I think Ferrari either know that the FIA will definitely cave in, or they have a decent back up plan if the FIA say no, such as a break away series. I don't think Ferrari would make this statement without all bases covered.

I wouldn't say a breakaway Series is a solution. It's just as problematic. Look at the US Top-Tier Single Seater breakup. Fiasco.

I guess so, but Ferrari's management style of late doesn't fill me with confidence.

Gah. This whole mess makes me very damn nervous. Why does everyone in F1 have to be so damned unreasonable?

[Frosty]

The simple fact is if the two tier system remains and the FIA don't come to an agreement with Ferrari then Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Toyota will leave. Without those teams the sport will be seriously damaged and I expect the manufactures will not want to take part in a damaged series so they will leave as well. If Ferrari go then FOM will loose a lot of it's contracts leaving F1 and FOM with very little money(the commercial rights holders need that money to pay off debts), teams will not be able to get as much sponsorship money because the fan base will be much much smaller.

Exactly, nobody wins if they quit.

All the parties need to sit down and hash this out.

...and nobody is going to quit! This overreaction is crazy.

So do you think the FIA are going to cave in? If the FIA don't cave in Ferrari and Red Bull will have to walk or they will never be respected in negotiations again their comments are to strong not to follow them through.

[Jamie]

Ferrari will never leave, Enzo Ferrari -god rest his soul- would turn in his grave if he heard this BS! I think F1 is racing, its business. It's about sponsorship and companies getting the names out! If Ferrari wants to waste time and effort of companies go ahead. It's just ridiculous. I find myself feeling a little disgraced at my own behalf? Ferrari is the team of my dreams and if ever I become a driver I would love my end year to ride on the horse. Maybe Indy Car Series is the next step? As you all must of herd that the Indy Pro league is urging more companies to come forth. Only Honda provides but by 2010 who knows? But I still think Ferrari will still supply engines to F1. They would be retards not too