FORUMula1.com

[Gaz]

KERS is only ever a good idea when everyone has it, it was another stupid decison by the FIA to introduce it this season and make it optional

[McLaren Fan]

KERS is only ever a good idea when everyone has it, it was another stupid decison by the FIA to introduce it this season and make it optional

Yeah. Dropping KERS now is pointless, though. The spade work has already been done, so its future costs will be much less.

[Gilles 27]

A budget capped F1 does not appeal to me. There should just be things that the teams are not allowed to spend on such as massive motor homes and 24 hour wind tunnels. KERS is the biggest contradiction in F1, it goes against the green policies, the safety policies and the cost cutting policies. The only merit it has is to increase overtaking and it doesn't do that because in the last races we have seen several instances when an overtaking maneuver has been prevented due to the lead car having KERS. It just makes it easier to defend as all the cars with KERS are too slow to be overtaking anyone anyway.

even if it did lead to an increase in overtaking, there would be a much cheaper, safer and less environmentally damaging way to do it.

[cap-dude]

The rule changes are different, but the fundamental elements of the car will remain the same. The difference with the switch from 08-09 and 09-10, is that from 08-09 the cars completely changed. It was a case of starting from scratch, blue sky thinking and and you see every car looking different. Tall noses and short nose, wide and thin noses, and various sidepod shapes, amongst other details.

With the 09-10 switch, the fundamental design of the car will stay the same. There won't be anything radical compared to last year. Teams won't have to completely redesign their entire car. So of course switching development early won't be as much as an advantage. It'll be an advantage, just not nearly as big as the one we seen this year.

[Gaz]

No its correct, the diffusers create turblance and the dd's due to extra planes will create more votexes thus more dirty air.

And like Mclaren Fan says there are kinda against the spirt of the new regs.

Hardly it seams your annoyed because no ones agreeing with you becaue you want these regs so your team can stay ahead.

Great so Force India, BGP and Williams Sign for the budget cap all other teams do without so title battle between BGP and Williams with Force India taking 3rd and Lapping every other team.

It wouls suck a sport can only exist and be enjoable if the playing field is fair.

Two Tier F1 will NOT work.

It is not correct. The extra turbulence generated is negligible. The detrimental effect on overtaking is less than that of KERS.

If you want proof, look at Rubens with a damaged wing overtaking a Williams, complete with its GeniusDiffuser, in Australia by drafting him.

I don't want these regs so Brawn can stay ahead. I want an equal, 1-tier, budget-capped F1 so we can have 13 teams all having a total punch up.

I am not going to say this again:

I do not and will not ever support a two-tier F1
What I say is that the best solution to the Two-tier system is to simply reject the uncapped tier out of hand and run all the teams with a budget cap.

OK Rubens didn't draft Nicos tires were shot if i rember and had more grip and better breaking.

[Jensonb]

The rule changes are different, but the fundamental elements of the car will remain the same. The difference with the switch from 08-09 and 09-10, is that from 08-09 the cars completely changed. It was a case of starting from scratch, blue sky thinking and and you see every car looking different. Tall noses and short nose, wide and thin noses, and various sidepod shapes, amongst other details.

With the 09-10 switch, the fundamental design of the car will stay the same. There won't be anything radical compared to last year. Teams won't have to completely redesign their entire car. So of course switching development early won't be as much as an advantage. It'll be an advantage, just not nearly as big as the one we seen this year.

Indeedy

[Gilles 27]

While we're on diffusers, did anyone hear that Martin Brundle attempted to organise an interview with Ross Brawn to discuss how the diffuser works? Apparently Brawn told him it would be pointless because it is quite an unimportant part of why the Brawn is fast and that there are actually lots of exciting and unknown things occurring with the airflow of both the Brawns ans the Red Bulls. Apparently Ross Brawn is happy as larry that the diffusers have gotten so much press as it keeping everyone from asking the 'right' questions about his car

[McLaren Fan]

While we're on diffusers, did anyone hear that Martin Brundle attempted to organise an interview with Ross Brawn to discuss how the diffuser works? Apparently Brawn told him it would be pointless because it is quite an unimportant part of why the Brawn is fast and that there are actually lots of exciting and unknown things occurring with the airflow of both the Brawns ans the Red Bulls. Apparently Ross Brawn is happy as larry that the diffusers have gotten so much press as it keeping everyone from asking the 'right' questions about his car

I didn't know this. Thanks for pointing it out. It''s very interesting. As I've said, the situation reminds me of 1998, when Ferrari were getting excited about McLaren's braking system. When the system was declared illegal, Ferrari and their fans felt they'd have the faster car. Sadly for them, things did not work out quite like that. It's very rare that a Formula One car is significantly faster than its competitors because of a single part. Designing a good Formula One car is getting the whole package right. Good examples of this are the Ferrari F2002 and F2004. Neither of those cars had anything extra special about them. In fact, in individual areas, other teams had done a better job - some of Newey's ideas on the McLarens, for example. But Byrne got the slightly less innovative individual bits and bobs working at one with each other, making the whole package so dominant.

[scotty]

While we're on diffusers, did anyone hear that Martin Brundle attempted to organise an interview with Ross Brawn to discuss how the diffuser works? Apparently Brawn told him it would be pointless because it is quite an unimportant part of why the Brawn is fast and that there are actually lots of exciting and unknown things occurring with the airflow of both the Brawns ans the Red Bulls. Apparently Ross Brawn is happy as larry that the diffusers have gotten so much press as it keeping everyone from asking the 'right' questions about his car

Makes sense really, cause otherwise they wouldn't still be the best all around car... i'd suggest that front wing does a lot for them, same as the mini bargeboards and the small sidepods.

Also, a thought occurs that Newey might have the same opinion, hence why RB haven't rushed an 'interim' diffuser on - and Newey is usually pretty good with these F1 aerodynamics.

[cap-dude]

Well, I don't think the other teams are stupid either. Brawn may gloat that the diffuser isn't the key performance part of the car, but we've seen every other team bar Red Bull and BMW attach a diffuser upgrade and go faster, so clearly there is performance there to be had. Ferrari were very close to the performance of Brawn after cutting just a hole in their diffuser.

How much the diffuser actually adds to the car is questionable, but if it does add even 2 tenths you know damn well every other team will want one.

[Jensonb]

Well, I don't think the other teams are stupid either. Brawn may gloat that the diffuser isn't the key performance part of the car, but we've seen every other team bar Red Bull and BMW attach a diffuser upgrade and go faster, so clearly there is performance there to be had. Ferrari were very close to the performance of Brawn after cutting just a hole in their diffuser.

How much the diffuser actually adds to the car is questionable, but if it does add even 2 tenths you know damn well every other team will want one.

Not every team. BMW's got them more or less zilch.

But that might be because their horrendously ugly car is also a wee bit useless.

[cap-dude]

Well, I don't think the other teams are stupid either. Brawn may gloat that the diffuser isn't the key performance part of the car, but we've seen every other team bar Red Bull and BMW attach a diffuser upgrade and go faster, so clearly there is performance there to be had. Ferrari were very close to the performance of Brawn after cutting just a hole in their diffuser.

How much the diffuser actually adds to the car is questionable, but if it does add even 2 tenths you know damn well every other team will want one.

Not every team. BMW's got them more or less zilch.

But that might be because their horrendously ugly car is also a wee bit useless.

Thats cause I don't recall BMW bringing a new diffuser yet. They just had an upgraded car at Barcelona.

[Jensonb]

Well, I don't think the other teams are stupid either. Brawn may gloat that the diffuser isn't the key performance part of the car, but we've seen every other team bar Red Bull and BMW attach a diffuser upgrade and go faster, so clearly there is performance there to be had. Ferrari were very close to the performance of Brawn after cutting just a hole in their diffuser.

How much the diffuser actually adds to the car is questionable, but if it does add even 2 tenths you know damn well every other team will want one.

Not every team. BMW's got them more or less zilch.

But that might be because their horrendously ugly car is also a wee bit useless.

Thats cause I don't recall BMW bringing a new diffuser yet. They just had an upgraded car at Barcelona.

Oh my mistake, I thought I was told it was on their Barca car. Might just be mis-remembering.

[Denthúl]

Well, I don't think the other teams are stupid either. Brawn may gloat that the diffuser isn't the key performance part of the car, but we've seen every other team bar Red Bull and BMW attach a diffuser upgrade and go faster, so clearly there is performance there to be had. Ferrari were very close to the performance of Brawn after cutting just a hole in their diffuser.

How much the diffuser actually adds to the car is questionable, but if it does add even 2 tenths you know damn well every other team will want one.

Not every team. BMW's got them more or less zilch.

But that might be because their horrendously ugly car is also a wee bit useless.

Thats cause I don't recall BMW bringing a new diffuser yet. They just had an upgraded car at Barcelona.

Oh my mistake, I thought I was told it was on their Barca car. Might just be mis-remembering.

Nope. The aim is to get it on the car for Turkey (and bloody Hell do we need it!). Hopefully, from then on, consistent points will be on the agenda. Once the car is at least decent, I expect Heidfeld to keep creeping up on good results. Kubica, though, I have been a little disappointed with so far this season. :/

[Jensonb]

Nope. The aim is to get it on the car for Turkey (and bloody Hell do we need it!). Hopefully, from then on, consistent points will be on the agenda. Once the car is at least decent, I expect Heidfeld to keep creeping up on good results. Kubica, though, I have been a little disappointed with so far this season. :/

"We"? Denth, are you supporting BMW now?