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[bud]

haha you fool!

[darwin dali]

It's amazing how you 'know' everything about McLaren and Ferrari, as if you were sitting with them for a beer on a daily basis. And when somebody offers a different view/opinion, you so easily resort to the use of 4-letter words or whatever. A sign of weakness? Maybe you're worried that your 'knowledge' will be debunked as what it is: hot air.

E.g., you ridiculed my post about Coughlan's wife going to the copy shop and the whole scandal being discovered that way in saying that they found 2 CDs, not paper. I have yet to see a report that confirms a different story. You keep going at this rate and your credibility goes down the drain quickly.

[bud]

No DforDumb im not relying my information on just media speculation like yourself. Call me weak or what ever ill call you what i think you are so take it as it comes!

Go on and keep reading and posting EVERY media headline they come up with which sympathises with poor ole Ferrari. Fact is if it was that clear cut then the FIA would have had no choice but to penalize McLaren but they didnt as there was NO evidence that anyone other than Coughlan had the data or did anything with the data. As it stands Coughlan only told a few comrades he had the data he didnt show them. thats from his affidavit! Ferrari on the other hand only heard about this from a 3rd party yet Todt now claims Ferrari were aware of a lunch between Stepney and Coughlan where they were discussing Ferrari brake balance and also is where he handed over the technical info. Now this was in Spain while Ferrari claim McLaren gained and advantage due to information being used prior to the season. Well the fact the Flexi floors is where Ferrari claimed McLaren gained an advantage not by using their data but by hindering their own by having to remove an illegal concept of the F2007 to begin with its abit ironic to cry foul but basically its impossible to say McLaren gained an advantage from the 780 pages of data when what they say happened before they got it!
they are using the Stepney sent an email prior to the season well who sent one from BMW Saubers as McLaren contested their floor aswell.

But DD please continue to believe the italian tabloids whatever tickles your fancy

[bud]

E.g., you ridiculed my post about Coughlan's wife going to the copy shop and the whole scandal being discovered that way in saying that they found 2 CDs, not paper. I have yet to see a report that confirms a different story. You keep going at this rate and your credibility goes down the drain quickly.

He was sent 2 DVD roms by courier mail and sent his wife to the copy shop to have the contents printed as a hardcopy. Did you think he was sent 780 pages and would photocopy or scan each page at the shop? then send back the 780 pages to Ferrari with a cheers note?

also if the McLaren Mercedes were involved in this wouldnt it have been better to have done the copying at woking? im sure they have the new age technology of a scanner printer and copier at the technology centre where they would never have been found out.

[darwin dali]

Ah, now you sound quite a bit different. This is what you wrote a few weeks ago:

and DD youre a fool! the copy store story is utter BS the police FOUND 2 ROM discs not PAPERS!

this theory isnt too far fetched at all! s*** like this always surrounds Ferrari when their main competitor is beating them.

[bud]

That was before his affidavit was leaked DD ofcourse my view is different before and after that point. also the copy book store had moved from spain to england over time, depends which tabloid you read.

[darwin dali]

You're entitled to change your view when new facts become known like everybody else. What my point is is that you almost always claim to be in the know (without any foundation) and then ridicule or defame other people that express a different view from yours. One can bring across one's doubts or questions about other posts in a way less confrontational manner, ya know? It's better for your blood pressure anyway...

[bud]

Well im not the one clawing for facts from the italian tabloids and using them as my foundation. Im basing my view on more than just mere media propaganda and using time frames and Ferraris change in story as proof. this whole BS is over the 780 page dossier right which Coughlan "recieved in spain over lunch now"yet Ferraris case lies on the fact they were hindered over the flexi floor ( illegal nonetheless) yet this was questioned by McLaren in the opening GP before Coughlan got the dossier. So how can Ferrari claim McLaren gained an advantage by having this dossier when firstly it was Coughlan not Mclaren that had it secondly the point they use happened before Coughlan got it.


Answer me this where was Ferraris stance like this with the Toyota case? Funny how its a title rival that takes them to get up a huff like this.

[deMuRe]

Bud why don't you take Ron Dennis' p3nis out of your mouth for 5 minutes and have a listen to what some very knowledgeable people think. Oh, and it's not just the italian tabloids:

'By any calculation, the decision made at the FIA's headquarters in Paris yesterday was about as far from sporting fairness as it is possible to get.

'Yes, the World Motor Sport Council's illogical conclusion in finding McLaren guilty of fraudulent misdeeds, yet not to punish them, helps Lewis Hamilton's quest for a wondrous world title in his rookie season.

'Yes, it allows one of the most engaging seasons in recent Formula One history to run its natural course.

'But for all those cosmetic reasons, there is no escaping the stench of whitewash wafting out across Paris.' - Jonathan McEvoy, the Daily Mail

[bud]

demure go f*** yourself! i dont roll like you!:P

again with the quotes do any of you have your own bloody thoughts! tossers.
everyones got an asshole demure some like yours are just prone to be wide open all the time

[McLaren Fan]

Bud why don't you take Ron Dennis' p3nis out of your mouth for 5 minutes and have a listen to what some very knowledgeable people think. Oh, and it's not just the italian tabloids:

'By any calculation, the decision made at the FIA's headquarters in Paris yesterday was about as far from sporting fairness as it is possible to get.

'Yes, the World Motor Sport Council's illogical conclusion in finding McLaren guilty of fraudulent misdeeds, yet not to punish them, helps Lewis Hamilton's quest for a wondrous world title in his rookie season.

'Yes, it allows one of the most engaging seasons in recent Formula One history to run its natural course.

'But for all those cosmetic reasons, there is no escaping the stench of whitewash wafting out across Paris.' - Jonathan McEvoy, the Daily Mail

More trip from a newspaper in attempt to stir up some anti-McLaren feeling. I don't know how many times as I've said - and how few journalists have said for that matter - that there was insufficient evidence to punish McLaren and should that evidence become available McLaren will recieve punishments in the form of disqualification which will also have a massive financial impact.

Furthermore, the discrepancies which Bud mentioned have not been mentioned as well. Just as the other thread about Ron Dennis' 'usless' drivers comment which was taken out of context no doubt and in February, you cannot believe whatever the newspapers say. They are out with a hidden agenda and trying to sell papers.

As I've said before, as a McLaren fan I would expect the team to be punished if any wrong doing was proven to have taken place, but so far it hasn't and there are a lot of other things besides McLaren just trying to get the heads up on Ferrari in this scandal.

[darwin dali]

Violating the sporting code is wrongdoing enough. They were found guilty and yet for political reasons they escaped punishment. This FIA decision will come back to haunt them and eventually bite McLaren.

[bud]

fact is if McLaren were in breach of the sporting code so was Ferrari as they didnt control their employee from breaching the sporting code also.

and its like a football tribunal here in Australia whether for Rugby league or Aussie rules, there is different forms of punishment depending on a charge for a player. Say a striking charge in the AFL he might get banned 6 games or he might get a reprimand, either way he still has broken a sporting code but his punishment depends on the severity.
its not black and white neither is this espionage case.

[deMuRe]

Violating the sporting code is wrongdoing enough. They were found guilty and yet for political reasons they escaped punishment. This FIA decision will come back to haunt them and eventually bite McLaren.

Yep, if they win this year's title everyone will be wondering if it was with Ferrari technology or not, so it will probably do them good in the long term to disqualify themselves just to bring back some form of credibility to this sport we love.

[darwin dali]

Violating the sporting code is wrongdoing enough. They were found guilty and yet for political reasons they escaped punishment. This FIA decision will come back to haunt them and eventually bite McLaren.

Yep, if they win this year's title everyone will be wondering if it was with Ferrari technology or not, so it will probably do them good in the long term to disqualify themselves just to bring back some form of credibility to this sport we love.

As has been pointed out by many, it doesn't even have to be Ferrari technology being used at McLaren to taint their championship charge. It can be things as innocuous as knowing their weight distribution or brake bias or future development plans or...