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[Fact Man]

"LONDON (Reuters) - Lawyers for Ferrari have suggested that McLaren owe their Formula One title advantage to leaked information from the Italian team, according to newspapers in Britain and Italy on Thursday."

I hope McLaren did not borrow from Ferrari their last failure with Kimi's car

I bet the folks at Ferrari have been coocking up this scheme since 05 when they first lost to Renault. Maybe they should accuse Renault of stealing info from them too. God forbids, no one is better than Ferrari and if someone else wins in F1 it must be Ferrari technology. Do these morons at Ferrari ever get tired of bitching (Todt, Massa...). When is it enough?

[Stephen]

But how did McLaren get found guilty today and then escape punishment? In the past Ferrari were always said to be in the FIAs pocket, is it now McLarens turn?

[madbrad]

Ferrari were always said to be in the FIAs pocket

did you get that backward?

[welshie]

I think it just might be that they can't prove that it was used. No doubt both parties are rather lucky

[bud]

all this shows is Ferrari are desperate and pathetic to resort to this claim! losers!

all the hearing got out of it was that coughlan had the info but McLaren as a team did nothing with it.

its in the courts its over for now Ferrari have the pace so try beating McLaren on the track and not off the track like you tried to do with Renault last year tifosi tossers

[bmwpower]

Ferrari lawyers say McLaren gained from leaked data

Lawyers are paid a lot of money to say things that's in their clients favor and to gain public support. The court found McLaren guilty but not guilty of having an advantage with the info. Anything else is nothing more then rumors.

all this shows is Ferrari are desperate and pathetic to resort to this claim! losers!

all the hearing got out of it was that coughlan had the info but McLaren as a team did nothing with it.

Acutally Bud, it shows that McLaren and Ron Dennis are the losers in this case. The court found Ron and McLaren guilty of having the info eventhough they denied it many times. In the public court, it showed McLaren lied and they knew about it. Like you said Bud, McLaren KNEW the info and did nothing, in the sporting conduct code, they should have been honorable and contact Ferrari and the FIA about the info. At the end of the day, don't matter how you want to sugar coat it, McLaren found guilty of lying but they found not guilty of gaining any advantage with the info. The whole point of this case is did McLaren lied and yes they did...GUILTY.

[Phil.T.Ho]

"LONDON (Reuters) - Lawyers for Ferrari have suggested that McLaren owe their Formula One title advantage to leaked information from the Italian team, according to newspapers in Britain and Italy on Thursday."

I hope McLaren did not borrow from Ferrari their last failure with Kimi's car

I bet the folks at Ferrari have been coocking up this scheme since 05 when they first lost to Renault. Maybe they should accuse Renault of stealing info from them too. God forbids, no one is better than Ferrari and if someone else wins in F1 it must be Ferrari technology. Do these morons at Ferrari ever get tired of bitching (Todt, Massa...). When is it enough?

dont worry Fact!!!!!....McLaren cleared!!!!! phew!!!!!!....i think the fia know if they had penalised McLaren in any way then it would have turned people away from f1 by the millions!!!! after such a great first half of the season( without our old m8 schuey i might add!!) , it would have been spectator suicide by the fia if they had interfered with the points as they stand !!!.......a little common sense on their part for a change!!!....

[deMuRe]

Ferrari lawyers say McLaren gained from leaked data

Lawyers are paid a lot of money to say things that's in their clients favor and to gain public support. The court found McLaren guilty but not guilty of having an advantage with the info. Anything else is nothing more then rumors.

all this shows is Ferrari are desperate and pathetic to resort to this claim! losers!

all the hearing got out of it was that coughlan had the info but McLaren as a team did nothing with it.

Acutally Bud, it shows that McLaren and Ron Dennis are the losers in this case. The court found Ron and McLaren guilty of having the info eventhough they denied it many times. In the public court, it showed McLaren lied and they knew about it. Like you said Bud, McLaren KNEW the info and did nothing, in the sporting conduct code, they should have been honorable and contact Ferrari and the FIA about the info. At the end of the day, don't matter how you want to sugar coat it, McLaren found guilty of lying but they found not guilty of gaining any advantage with the info. The whole point of this case is did McLaren lied and yes they did...GUILTY.

I agree with this, McLaren are the scum of the earth and they always market themselves as angels.

[Alien_SAP_Fiend]

all the hearing got out of it was that coughlan had the info but McLaren as a team did nothing with it.

...nothing, including not informing anybody that their Chief Designer had technical information of another team, even though he had showed it to colleagues, including Martin Whitmarsh. Nothing until Coughlan was stupid enough to try and get it copied.

Ferrari have the pace so try beating McLaren on the track and not off the track like you tried to do with Renault last year tifosi tossers

Yes, beat them on the track, like Mclaren did earlier this year with their letter to the FIA, asking about the flexible floor? Don't forget that Mclaren also protested the Mass Damper last year.

So, the FIA says it's OK if a member of one team sends technical information to another team, as long as the other team don't get caught with the information and when they are caught, it's OK as long as they can't be proved to have used the infromation (other than to protest flexible floor and things like that).

[bud]

BMWPower this was not in the courts this was just the FIAs ruling the matter should always have been left for the courts as it was with the espionage case with Toyota, The FIA said there was NO evidence McLaren used the data that coughlan had in his possesion so why dont all you whining sooks shut the f*** up! until proven otherwise McLaren are innocent! all the FIA found was that a McLaren team member had in possession of ferrari documents breaching the sporting code which they found them guilty on, not guilty of using the data.


Demure youre the scum of the earth... youre a queensland occa go play rugby and stick your head up another blokes bottom cos im sick of your s***!

[bud]

all the hearing got out of it was that coughlan had the info but McLaren as a team did nothing with it.

...nothing, including not informing anybody that their Chief Designer had technical information of another team, even though he had showed it to colleagues, including Martin Whitmarsh. Nothing until Coughlan was stupid enough to try and get it copied.

Ferrari have the pace so try beating McLaren on the track and not off the track like you tried to do with Renault last year tifosi tossers

Yes, beat them on the track, like Mclaren did earlier this year with their letter to the FIA, asking about the flexible floor? Don't forget that Mclaren also protested the Mass Damper last year.

So, the FIA says it's OK if a member of one team sends technical information to another team, as long as the other team don't get caught with the information and when they are caught, it's OK as long as they can't be proved to have used the infromation (other than to protest flexible floor and things like that).

you act as though cheating with a flexi floor is ok??? oh and how did they know BMW had the same device? some one send them their technical data too??

Anyone with any knowledge about engineering of a car knows that McLaren wouldnt have been able to just adapt their current chassis to ferraris info. its not going to happen in such a short time and two chassis behave differently so what works on the ferrari with its longer wheel base wont work on the mp4 22
so by all means keep whinging like a typical pommy git like everyone else on this forum and keep going on about this bs while the rest of the season goes on

[bmwpower]

BMWPower this was not in the courts this was just the FIAs ruling the matter should always have been left for the courts as it was with the espionage case with Toyota, The FIA said there was NO evidence McLaren used the data that coughlan had in his possesion so why dont all you whining sooks shut the f*** up! until proven otherwise McLaren are innocent! all the FIA found was that a McLaren team member had in possession of ferrari documents breaching the sporting code which they found them guilty on, not guilty of using the data.


Demure youre the scum of the earth... youre a queensland occa go play rugby and stick your head up another blokes bottom cos im sick of your s***!

Bud, why are you so angry if McLaren is didn't do anything wrong. Relax bro and cut out the profanity, otherwise all the newbies will think McLaren fans are a bunch of morons. My point is, McLaren is found guilty, yet people try to sugar coat it like "well they didn't used the data or they didn't use it to their advantage". F1 won't lost millions of fans if the FIA/WSC punish or penalize McLaren, its the opposite, I bet you will see fans at next few races with signs calling McLaren "cheaters" or worse. If they will the Championship this year, there will be question marks around their victories, the press will continue to hound them and so will F1 fans. No one will EVER know if McLaren used the data to their advantage except McLaren. The point most of us intelligent mature people are trying to make is this, how can someone be found GUILTY yet not punished or penalized??

[7UpJordan]

This is kinda like back in 1994 when Benetton were accused of using illegal traction control and launch control, the FIA found the devices on the car but no evidence that they had been used, that's why Senna stood at the side of the track listening out for traction control every time Schumacher went by after he got taken out on the first lap at Aida.

[darwin dali]

how can someone be found GUILTY yet not punished or penalized??

'nuf said.

[bmwpower]

This is kinda like back in 1994 when Benetton were accused of using illegal traction control and launch control, the FIA found the devices on the car but no evidence that they had been used, that's why Senna stood at the side of the track listening out for traction control every time Schumacher went by after he got taken out on the first lap at Aida.

Using something that is illegal is different from this situation. I am not a big Ferrari fan, but Ferrari employees worked hard during the off season, spent millions testing, collecting datas, and finally built the car from all this. Overnight, someone obtained this information without working hard on it themselves and lied that they never had the info. Imagine your boss told you to work on a project that will bring the company success, you worked long hard hours for several months and someone just stole that info from you and lied that they never had it. Would you be mad??

this is what the press had to say about the whole situation, it sums up the whole situation:

"Imagine you have had your car stolen and then it is found in the garden of a man who lives near you. You inform the police and they verify the theft. But because the thief shows that he hasn't used the car, he's cleared of any crime. That is exactly what happened to Ferrari."