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[Denthúl]

I can't really comment on those that I have not seen race, so:

1= Mika Hakkinen
1= Michael Schumacher
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen

I don't have a number five, because I really can't decide. There are too many that I consider really good to put one of them in there

[EwanM]

Tazio Nuvolari.

[Denthúl]

Tazio Nuvolari.

...who?

[EwanM]

Tazio Nuvolari.

...who?

Oh wait is it 1950 onwards only?

Nevermind.

[Denthúl]

Tazio Nuvolari.

...who?

Oh wait is it 1950 onwards only?

Nevermind.

No.

My list is made up of drivers from 1998 onwards

I've just never heard of the chap.

[EwanM]

Well if you watch the BBC coverage on youtube on the eve of the illfated San Marino Gp 1994, Steve Rider and Murray Walker mention Nuvolari. Although he didn't really compete in the Official World Championship, some say he is one of the greatest. Observe:

Tazio Nuvolari a legend in his own lifetime, was known as Il Montavano Volante, the Flying Mantuan.. He epitomized courage and daring and for 30 years he amazed the racing world with his exploits on both two and four wheels. He was born November 18, 1892, in Casteldrio near Mantua. His uncle Giuseppe was a Bianchi dealer and introduced his nephew to motor sports. After serving in the Italian Army as a driver he started racing motorcycles seriously when he was 28. He raced Nortons, Saroleas, Garellis, Fongris and Indians. His riding was noticed by the powerful Bianchi team and he became a member and eventually Italian champion. At the Monza Grand Prix for motorcycles he crashed during practice. This resulted in two broken legs. After doctors put plaster casts on both legs he was told that it would be at least one month before he could walk again let alone race motorcycles. The next day he started the race having himself tied to his bike. He required his mechanics to hold him upright at the start of the race and to catch him at the end. The legend of Tazio Nuvolari began that day when he won the race. Nuvolari began racing cars in 1924 at the age of 32 while still competing in motorcycles. In 1927 he started his own team, buying a pair of Bugatti 35Bs which he shared with his partner Achille Varzi who was also a successful motorcycle racer. This partnership would later turn into an intense rivalry. Nuvolari began to win races at the expense of Varzi who left the team. Varzi, the son of a wealthy merchant could afford better equipment and bought an Alfa P2. With this car he had the better of Nuvolari. He signed on with Alfa Romeo in 1929 and was a teammate of his rival Varzi once again. The Mille Miglia of 1930 would go down in history when Nuvolari caught an unsuspecting Varzi while driving in the night sans headlights. Three kilometers from the finish he suddenly pulled along side, smiling at his startled teammate he flicked on his headlights and powered on to victory.

For the Targa Floria of 1932 he requested of Enzo Ferrari a mechanic who weighed as little or less than he. Nuvolari took the young and inexperienced mechanic that Ferrari had given him and told him that he would warn him when they approached a particularly difficult corner so as not to unduly frighten the young man. As they approached a corner, Nuvolari would shout for the mechanic to take cover under the dashboard. After the race and another victory for Nuvolari, Ferrari asked the mechanic how he had made out. "Nuvolari started shouting at the first bend and finished at the last one," the boy answered. "I was down at the bottom of the car all the time." In 1933 he scored many victories but became estranged from the team manager Enzo Ferrari and left for Maserati. 1933 also saw him travel to Northern Ireland for the Tourist Trophy Race and a drive in a supercharged MG K3 Magnette. After totally dominating the race someone asked him if he liked the MG's brakes. Nuvolari replied he couldn't really tell, he hadn't used them that much. In 1935 he was induced to return to Alfa Romeo and scored one of his greatest victories at the Nurburgring. Driving an obsolete Alfa against the might of the German nation. He drove at the ragged edge and sometimes over it. His relentless pursuit caused the lead Mercedes to retire with a blown tire and he cruised to victory in front of a large gathering of Nazi party officials. In 1936 he had a serious accident during practice for the Tripoli GP but escaped from the hospital and took a taxi to the race where he finished seventh in a spare car. After the death of Bernd Rosemeyer in 1938, Auto Union was desperate for a driver who could master their mid-engine racecar. At the insistence of Dr. Ferdinand Porsche they turned to an Italian, Nuvolari who would go on to win the British Grand Prix at Donington.

Only World War II could stop Nuvolari but after the fighting stopped he returned to racing at the age of 53. In a minor race he had the steering wheel come off his car yet managed to return to the pits holding the wheel in one hand and the steering column with the other. He continued to win but age and sickness from acute asthma, the result of years of inhaling exhaust fumes would finally take their toll. His last Mille Miglia, in 1948, was a defining moment in his illustrious career. It was said that he wanted to die in the sport that he loved so much but in this wish he was denied. On August 11th, 1953, 9 months after suffering a paralyzing stroke he was dead. As was his wish he was buried in his uniform - the yellow jersey and blue trousers.



More than 50,000 people attended his funeral. Enzo Ferrari arriving in Mantua stopped at a plumber's shop to ask for directions. Seeing the Modena license plates and unaware of the identity of the driver, the workman murmured, "Thank you for coming. A man like that won't be born again."

http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/nuvo_bio.htm

[Denthúl]

Wow. That's quite an amazing story

[EwanM]

I cited Nuvolari because I feel that there can never be a list of Top 5 or Top 10 drivers ever. The conditions of which the decisions are based on are often flawed, as they are either decided merely on figures or hearsay.

What we have to remember is that Formula One is a very different beast today as to what it was 50, 40 even 5 years ago.
The cars change, the rules and regulations change, the length of the race and even the personality of the drivers all change.
I've been asked by a number of people "So who is the best of all time?" and I always give them the same answer. There isn't one.

As we know, the days of Moss and Fangio, where front engined machines with skinny tyres were the norm, was a completely different era to the slicks and V8 monsters we have in F1 today.
Would there have been a Hamilton or a Schumacher without a Senna or a Prost? No.
Would there have been a Senna or a Prost without a Lauda or a Stewart? Certainly not.
Would there have even been a Clark without a Fangio? A Fangio without a said Nuvolari? I don't even need to answer.

As Formula One evolves so does its drivers and its methods. Drivers of this era drove completely different cars to those in the past and also faced a very different environment where this "Gentleman Sport" has now transformed into a Multi-Billion Dollar Business.

Therefore you cannot determine who was the greatest of all time because each Generation is merely an evolution of before and is ever changing.

[Gaz]

I cited Nuvolari because I feel that there can never be a list of Top 5 or Top 10 drivers ever. The conditions of which the decisions are based on are often flawed, as they are either decided merely on figures or hearsay.

What we have to remember is that Formula One is a very different beast today as to what it was 50, 40 even 5 years ago.
The cars change, the rules and regulations change, the length of the race and even the personality of the drivers all change.
I've been asked by a number of people "So who is the best of all time?" and I always give them the same answer. There isn't one.

As we know, the days of Moss and Fangio, where front engined machines with skinny tyres were the norm, was a completely different era to the slicks and V8 monsters we have in F1 today.
Would there have been a Hamilton or a Schumacher without a Senna or a Prost? No.
Would there have been a Senna or a Prost without a Lauda or a Stewart? Certainly not.
Would there have even been a Clark without a Fangio? A Fangio without a said Nuvolari? I don't even need to answer.

As Formula One evolves so does its drivers and its methods. Drivers of this era drove completely different cars to those in the past and also faced a very different environment where this "Gentleman Sport" has now transformed into a Multi-Billion Dollar Business.

Therefore you cannot determine who was the greatest of all time because each Generation is merely an evolution of before and is ever changing.

[Gilles 27]

yeh there are a lot of Pre 1950 guys worth a mention but it get's kinda difficult to say how good they were as F1 drivers as the grand prix formula was a fair bit weaker and they did loads of other stuff too. Carraciola, Nuvolari, Rosemayer, Barnato, Chiron, there were some legends

[EwanM]

yeh there are a lot of Pre 1950 guys worth a mention but it get's kinda difficult to say how good they were as F1 drivers as the grand prix formula was a fair bit weaker and they did loads of other stuff too. Carraciola, Nuvolari, Rosemayer, Barnato, Chiron, there were some legends

Furthermore there is such a large lack of footage from the early era.
And well there is an argument that you don't need to have won the World Championship to be considered a great.

[Denthúl]

yeh there are a lot of Pre 1950 guys worth a mention but it get's kinda difficult to say how good they were as F1 drivers as the grand prix formula was a fair bit weaker and they did loads of other stuff too. Carraciola, Nuvolari, Rosemayer, Barnato, Chiron, there were some legends

Furthermore there is such a large lack of footage from the early era.
And well there is an argument that you don't need to have won the World Championship to be considered a great.

As well as that, you can win a championship and still not be a great.

[EwanM]

yeh there are a lot of Pre 1950 guys worth a mention but it get's kinda difficult to say how good they were as F1 drivers as the grand prix formula was a fair bit weaker and they did loads of other stuff too. Carraciola, Nuvolari, Rosemayer, Barnato, Chiron, there were some legends

Furthermore there is such a large lack of footage from the early era.
And well there is an argument that you don't need to have won the World Championship to be considered a great.

As well as that, you can win a championship and still not be a great.

Or Three... Any guesses?

[Jensonb]

I can't really comment on those that I have not seen race, so:

1= Mika Hakkinen
1= Michael Schumacher
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen

I don't have a number five, because I really can't decide. There are too many that I consider really good to put one of them in there

Yeah, I'll just do ones I've seen and give the older ones Honourable Mentions

1) Michael Schumacher
2) Fernando Alonso
3) Kimi Raikkonen
4) Mika Hakkinen
5) Well guess... Jenson of course

Honourable Mentions for The Professor, Ayrton, Gilles Villeneuve and Jackie Stewart

[burt estep]

tazio's emblem was a turttle the slowest animal for the fastest human. but also consider the tale of one camille getazy,belgian red hair very large.he was known as the red devil.the races in 1914 or so were long stage events often days long.after the stops between stages he would drink a whole bottle of champs/bubbly and drive on.after one race/winning/ he brought his buddies back to his estate and they went hunting/drinking/drinking.at one point when they were sitting around after he put on a bear's head and popped out of a bush to scare them/ well they shot him dead. don't make em' like that anymore. burt.