FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Gaz]

Don't act so smug longbow, you completely missed my point. DeMuRe said that Lewis and McLaren should have copped to what they'd done once it was apparent that Toyota and Trulli were taking punishment unjustly. He is not saying they did it to get at Toyota, which is what your sarcastic response suggests he is saying.

No i was just being sarcastic.

your reading too much into it.

and to be fair you've come across abit smug with some of your replys my freind.

[racechick]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

[Jensonb]

Don't act so smug longbow, you completely missed my point. DeMuRe said that Lewis and McLaren should have copped to what they'd done once it was apparent that Toyota and Trulli were taking punishment unjustly. He is not saying they did it to get at Toyota, which is what your sarcastic response suggests he is saying.

No i was just being sarcastic.

your reading too much into it.

and to be fair you've come across abit smug with some of your replys my freind.

I don't follow. Sarcasm is a means to an end, namely making a point. Why would you say it if not to disagree with him, especially given the way it was phrased?

If you just randomly inserted a sarcastic comment relating to nothing in particular, I fail to see why it was necessary to quote deMuRe

[Gaz]

Don't act so smug longbow, you completely missed my point. DeMuRe said that Lewis and McLaren should have copped to what they'd done once it was apparent that Toyota and Trulli were taking punishment unjustly. He is not saying they did it to get at Toyota, which is what your sarcastic response suggests he is saying.

No i was just being sarcastic.

your reading too much into it.

and to be fair you've come across abit smug with some of your replys my freind.

I don't follow. Sarcasm is a means to an end, namely making a point. Why would you say it if not to disagree with him, especially given the way it was phrased?

If you just randomly inserted a sarcastic comment relating to nothing in particular, I fail to see why it was necessary to quote deMuRe

I feel it was relevent.

[Jensonb]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

[billindenver]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Amen

[racechick]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Amen

[Gaz]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

What if dave forced hamilton to lie?

[Denthúl]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

What if dave forced hamilton to lie?

He could not have. Lewis is the reigning WDC and McLaren's best driver. He would have held far more power in such a situation than Dave Ryan. Dave Ryan would not be able to have Lewis sacked for failing to lie to stewards, because he would then have had to admit to Martin Whitmarsh that he intended to lie to the stewards. This would cause Ryan to be severely punished.

[EwanM]

[Gaz]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

What if dave forced hamilton to lie?

He could not have. Lewis is the reigning WDC and McLaren's best driver. He would have held far more power in such a situation than Dave Ryan. Dave Ryan would not be able to have Lewis sacked for failing to lie to stewards, because he would then have had to admit to Martin Whitmarsh that he intended to lie to the stewards. This would cause Ryan to be severely punished.

Don't be so naive Dave has been above Lewis for 12 years and he is somone lewis looked up too.

So he could of easily convicned him to go along with his idea

[Denthúl]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

What if dave forced hamilton to lie?

He could not have. Lewis is the reigning WDC and McLaren's best driver. He would have held far more power in such a situation than Dave Ryan. Dave Ryan would not be able to have Lewis sacked for failing to lie to stewards, because he would then have had to admit to Martin Whitmarsh that he intended to lie to the stewards. This would cause Ryan to be severely punished.

Don't be so naive Dave has been above Lewis for 12 years and he is somone lewis looked up too.

So he could of easily convicned him to go along with his idea

I'm not being naive, I'm stating fact. Lewis held the better cards. Ryan just (apparently) played the game better. I always wondered why Lewis didn't play poker with RK, BE and the gang...

[racechick]

Nobody would dispute that the lie needs to be put in its proper context and deny that there are mitigating circumstances, but the fact is wrongdoing occurred. McLaren may have deserved the third place, but Hamilton and Ryan were shamelessly prepared to have Trulli's integrity muddied...

I don think this is in dispute!

Well, you are disputing it, because you've said that, although Hamilton was involved in the lie, it was completely unwittingly. What I'm saying is anybody who buys into this is compartmentalised, delusioned or lying themselves.

Well thanks for that, thats very nice of you to think that way. So if people dont agree with your way of thinking they are "compartmentalised, delusional or lying to themselves" Yo have a high opinion of yourself and your views.
And I've never said Lewis's part in the lie was "completely unwitting" For goodness sake of course it wasnt!!

Question...

If you accept it was not unwitting, you accept he is a liar and a cheat...If that's the case why is it okay for him to get off with a 1 race DSQ and bad press, but Dave Ryan to lose his job of 35 years and get dragged through the mud by the team blaming him for it?

Ive explained that time and again!!

I can't tell you how sorry I am, but I failed to pick up on anything resembling an actual explanation for that.

Unless you're referring to the "Lewis is the star driver, they need him blah blah blah" thing, and if that's it, then it's a weak argument. We're not saying Lewis should be sacked or replaced, we're saying both he and Dave should have received equal, lesser than what Ryan has received, punishments from the team.

What if dave forced hamilton to lie?

He could not have. Lewis is the reigning WDC and McLaren's best driver. He would have held far more power in such a situation than Dave Ryan. Dave Ryan would not be able to have Lewis sacked for failing to lie to stewards, because he would then have had to admit to Martin Whitmarsh that he intended to lie to the stewards. This would cause Ryan to be severely punished.

Don't be so naive Dave has been above Lewis for 12 years and he is somone lewis looked up too.

So he could of easily convicned him to go along with his idea

I'm not being naive, I'm stating fact. Lewis held the better cards. Ryan just (apparently) played the game better. I always wondered why Lewis didn't play poker with RK, BE and the gang...

Because he's no good and uncomfortable with lying

[EwanM]

As sad as it is for me to say it, Denthul I think we should just leave it. They will never listen to reason. Instead they are going to follow Hamilton around and around.

[Gaz]

Thing to remember in all of this, Mclaren got rid of Ryan rather than taking it as a team.

I can't see them doing that just to make it look like it was Ryans Idea.

i'd like to hear its from Ryans point of view to see what he actualy did.

i mean if he came out and said it was Lewis's idea then fine i'd accept that. But if he came out and said yeh it was my idea i conviced lewis to lie would the people here who think its all Lewis doing accept that?

I am Listing to reason here i mean i don't see how people here can't accept the idea that Lewis could be infulened to do this.

The FIA have.