FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[McLaren Fan]

Mercedes should buy 10.5% more shares and become the majority shareholder. Then sack the top management (Whitmarsh and co.) and make Norbert Haug team boss.

Hmm. There's been no indication Ron Dennis, TAG or Bahrain's Mumtalakat Holding Company want to sell any of their shares, so Mercedes' getting the 10.5% required doesn't seem likely. And, to be honest, you could argue it either way whether or not they want to increase their involvement Formula One, never mind McLaren, at the moment anyway.

In terms of Whitmarsh, I'm not sure what to think. He claims he didn't speak to Ryan after his meeting with the stewards, positing that the team were too busy packing up. Was Whitmarsh packing up as well? Unlikely. How long would the conversation have taken? A couple of minutes. If he was genuinely busy, could he not have spoken to him later in the day or over the phone? Certainly. He's an intelligent, experienced and was shown the ropes by a legend, so how could he have got it so wrong? If it were anybody else, I'd say there was something more sinister going on, and on top of that he's come out and apologised and has basically said he'll either be resigning depending on the results of McLaren's internal report or if the shareholders want him out. It is, then, a totally incomprehensible and gigantic failure of management on his part. I'm really disappointed in him. He's the only one at McLaren (Racing anyway...) with the required experience (or so we thought) to run the team, so it's not like a replacement can easily be found.

So where does the above leave McLaren? Well, the options seem to be (and none of these are terribly feasible):

i. Allow Whitmarsh to keep his job, hoping he's learned his lesson and possibly gets punishment from McLaren;
ii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring back Dennis;
iii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring in somebody else from outside McLaren;
iv. Sack Whitmarsh and do the latter part of either ii and iii;
v. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren on top of his responsibilities for Mercedes and sack Whitmarsh; or
vi. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren and move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role.

And this is before the FIA have their say in the matter. McLaren really are up the creek without a paddle.

[Frosty]

Mercedes should buy 10.5% more shares and become the majority shareholder. Then sack the top management (Whitmarsh and co.) and make Norbert Haug team boss.

Hmm. There's been no indication Ron Dennis, TAG or Bahrain's Mumtalakat Holding Company want to sell any of their shares, so Mercedes' getting the 10.5% required doesn't seem likely. And, to be honest, you could argue it either way whether they want to increase their involvement Formula One, never mind McLaren, at the moment anyway.

In terms of Whitmarsh, I'm not sure what to think. He claims he didn't speak to Ryan after his meeting with the stewards, positing that the team were too busy packing up. Was Whitmarsh packing up as well? Unlikely. How long would the conversation have taken? A couple of minutes. If he was genuinely busy, could he not have spoken to him later in the day or over the phone? Certainly. He's an intelligent, experienced and was shown the ropes by a legend, so how could he have got it so wrong? If it were anybody else, I'd say there was something more sinister going on, and on top of that he's come out and apologised and has basically said he'll either be resigning depending on the results of McLaren's internal report or if the shareholders want him out. It is, then, a totally incomprehensible and gigantic failure of management on his part. I'm really disappointed in him. He's the only one at McLaren (Racing anyway...) with the required experience (or so we thought) to run the team, so it's not like a replacement can easily be found.

So where does the above leave McLaren? Well, the options seem to be (and none of these are terribly feasible):

i. Allow Whitmarsh to keep his job, hoping he's learned his lesson and possibly gets punishment from McLaren;
ii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring back Dennis;
iii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring in somebody else from outside McLaren;
iv. Sack Whitmarsh and do the latter part of either ii and iii;
v. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren on top of his responsibilities for Mercedes and sack Whitmarsh; or
vi. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren and move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role.

And this is before the FIA have their say in the matter. McLaren really are up the creek without a paddle.

I think i, ii or iv with ii are the only options but I think Ron is genuinely very busy with very large projects inside the group outside of the F1 team McLaren have a very large sport car project in the future they want to be making something like a 1000 sports cars a year in a few years time.

[darwin dali]

Mercedes should buy 10.5% more shares and become the majority shareholder. Then sack the top management (Whitmarsh and co.) and make Norbert Haug team boss.

Hmm. There's been no indication Ron Dennis, TAG or Bahrain's Mumtalakat Holding Company want to sell any of their shares, so Mercedes' getting the 10.5% required doesn't seem likely. And, to be honest, you could argue it either way whether or not they want to increase their involvement Formula One, never mind McLaren, at the moment anyway.

In terms of Whitmarsh, I'm not sure what to think. He claims he didn't speak to Ryan after his meeting with the stewards, positing that the team were too busy packing up. Was Whitmarsh packing up as well? Unlikely. How long would the conversation have taken? A couple of minutes. If he was genuinely busy, could he not have spoken to him later in the day or over the phone? Certainly. He's an intelligent, experienced and was shown the ropes by a legend, so how could he have got it so wrong? If it were anybody else, I'd say there was something more sinister going on, and on top of that he's come out and apologised and has basically said he'll either be resigning depending on the results of McLaren's internal report or if the shareholders want him out. It is, then, a totally incomprehensible and gigantic failure of management on his part. I'm really disappointed in him. He's the only one at McLaren (Racing anyway...) with the required experience (or so we thought) to run the team, so it's not like a replacement can easily be found.

So where does the above leave McLaren? Well, the options seem to be (and none of these are terribly feasible):

i. Allow Whitmarsh to keep his job, hoping he's learned his lesson and possibly gets punishment from McLaren;
ii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring back Dennis;
iii. Move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role and bring in somebody else from outside McLaren;
iv. Sack Whitmarsh and do the latter part of either ii and iii;
v. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren on top of his responsibilities for Mercedes and sack Whitmarsh; or
vi. See if Haug is willing to run McLaren and move Whitmarsh back to his old role or a different role.

And this is before the FIA have their say in the matter. McLaren really are up the creek without a paddle.

I'm sure Mercedes, if they wanted to, could put the thumb screws on and get those 10.5% from somebody ('if we don't get our way, we'll leave!').

Your final paragraph: you should also mention 'and this is before the Mercedes board had their say in the matter'

I truly believe that McLaren needs a shake up in their ways of doing things - they seem somewhat crustified, in a corporate identity rot that stymies out of the box thinking and spreads an atmosphere of latent fear of internal consequences for everything one does that doesn't follow the rigid McLaren rules. Haug could well be the man to bring about a change - he's an 'insiding' outsider so to speak, knows the team and the business inside out and he seems more flexible in his thinking. He could be for McLaren what Obama is for America

[bud]

I doubt much will come of this, but you have to wonder what McLaren (And Force India I suppose) do if Mercedes do bail. Cosworth?

Mercedes is the largest share holder in McLaren they arent just an engine supplier. If they were to leave F1 they would also have to either sell off their share or keep it until times are in better shape!

Yeah i agree with DD i would like Norbert as team boss he has his head in the right place for the job!

[Jensonb]

I doubt much will come of this, but you have to wonder what McLaren (And Force India I suppose) do if Mercedes do bail. Cosworth?

Mercedes is the largest share holder in McLaren they arent just an engine supplier. If they were to leave F1 they would also have to either sell off their share or keep it until times are in better shape!

Two things:

I know that.
What relevance does it have to my statement?

[darwin dali]

Yeah i agree with DD i would like Norbert as team boss he has his head in the right place for the job!

I'm in absolute shock!

[bud]

I doubt much will come of this, but you have to wonder what McLaren (And Force India I suppose) do if Mercedes do bail. Cosworth?

Mercedes is the largest share holder in McLaren they arent just an engine supplier. If they were to leave F1 they would also have to either sell off their share or keep it until times are in better shape!

Two things:

I know that.
What relevance does it have to my statement?

No attack at your knowledge the relevance was Im saying Mercedes wont bail because they own McLaren and McLaren wont be bailing. though i guess Honda bailed so who knows.
it would leave the grid with 3 teams needing to find engines and that would be catastrophic for the sport.


yeah DD we usually agree on things in the natural world not in the sporting world. but i think McLaren could do with alot more Germans running the team, calm and collective and just head on the job. The German way

[darwin dali]

I doubt much will come of this, but you have to wonder what McLaren (And Force India I suppose) do if Mercedes do bail. Cosworth?

Mercedes is the largest share holder in McLaren they arent just an engine supplier. If they were to leave F1 they would also have to either sell off their share or keep it until times are in better shape!

Two things:

I know that.
What relevance does it have to my statement?

No attack at your knowledge the relevance was Im saying Mercedes wont bail because they own McLaren and McLaren wont be bailing. though i guess Honda bailed so who knows.
it would leave the grid with 3 teams needing to find engines and that would be catastrophic for the sport.


yeah DD we usually agree on things in the natural world not in the sporting world. but i think McLaren could do with alot more Germans running the team, calm and collective and just head on the job. The German way

I like Theissen's way of running his team as well...

[Jensonb]

[No attack at your knowledge the relevance was Im saying Mercedes wont bail because they own McLaren and McLaren wont be bailing. though i guess Honda bailed so who knows.
it would leave the grid with 3 teams needing to find engines and that would be catastrophic for the sport.

Okay, seems that was just a little misunderstanding there (My bad), we basically agree.

[Tim]

In highly doubt they would leave, don't they co-own like 3 teams - McLaren,Brawn and Force India?

They own 40% of McLaren but Force India and Brawn are just customers though I believe there is now quite a strong relationship between McLaren Mercedes and Force India like they have sent a couple of McLaren guys to help them get their act together also they have far more than a engine contract they have a engine, gearbox, KERS, electrics and hydraulics deal.

But being customers, shouldn't that mean that Mercedes have more reason to stay in becuase of the money they get from Force India and Brawn?

[bud]

'MERC ARE CONCERNED BUT WON'T DROP MCLAREN'
Monday 6th April 2009


Mercedes VP Norbert Haug has insisted that the German manufacturers are still fully supportive of McLaren's F1 efforts despite the fallout from Lewis Hamilton's disqualification from the Australian GP.

Having been excluded from the Constructors' Championship in 2007 due to the 'spygate' affair, the British outfit found themselves in even more controversy last week when Hamilton and McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan failed to tell the entire truth during a stewards' hearing after the Melbourne race.

Hamilton was elevated from fourth to third after Jarno Trulli was handed a 25-second penalty for passing the World Champion during a Safety Car period but the case was re-opened by the FIA after evidence was produced of a radio transmission between Hamilton and the pitwall which revealed that he had been told to allow Trulli to pass.

The stewards determined that by not admitting that evidence at the hearing, Hamilton and McLaren had "acted in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards."

McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan was subsequently suspended by the team while a shame-faced Hamilton appeared before the media the following day to publicly apologise for 'wasting the stewards' time'.

Haug said that Mercedes-Benz, a 40% shareholder in the team, are concerned with the situation but still fully backing the efforts of the team and principal Martin Whitmarsh.

"I am in permanent contact with Stuttgart and I am reporting to (Mercedes-Benz chairman) Dr Zetsche directly and of course we will sit down next week (at McLaren) to discuss the matter," said Haug, who was at Sepang for the Malaysian Grand Prix.

"I'm not absolutely of the opinion that McLaren is creating one disaster after the other. We have won the World Championship and I have full trust in Martin, just to point that out.

"The whole affair is not what we want, absolutely not, but I have the feeling that these guys (Hamilton and Ryan) went and they were probably a little bit afraid of losing fourth place. And then all of a sudden they said no when they should have said yes.

"In hindsight they should have had a print out of the radio conversation, because you can look at it anyway. But if we are honest probably something like that has happened to all of us.

"This is not an excuse, but McLaren are not creating one problem after the other and I think we have a good relationship. I know exactly what money we are spending and I know exactly what positive values we got from last year.

"This is currently not a positive value - the newspapers are full of our stories. It is certainly not creating the right image.

"If it was not a bearable situation, then we need to sit down in Stuttgart and take our decision, but for now I have all the faith and all that I can put behind Martin. He is a great guy and runs the team in a very good way."

Haug admitted though that it would be difficult to state any long-term commitments given the current world economic climate and the difficulties facing car manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz.

"For sure, it is a difficult time for all of us in the whole car industry and talking about victories would be better than having a discussion like this," he said.

"If you're asking me if we're going to be here for the next 10 years, I have to be honest and say that I cannot give you an answer because we don't know how the world car industry will develop in these tough economic times.

"I hope things change because the current situation is not easy for anybody but we will discuss all the issues in more detail."

Despite only recently taking over from Ron Dennis as McLaren principal, Whitmarsh himself is uncertain about his future with the team.

"I owe it to the team, not just the people here because there are a thousand people in Bricksworth, Woking and Stuttgart and our other partners who concentrate on this programme, to do what I can to stabilise a very difficult situation," said Whitmarsh.

"In the longer term, I can contemplate my future. It's not self determining. It's for the shareholders of this team to take a view and it's ultimately up to them to decide what's best for this team.

"I'm not resigning this weekend. We've made commitments to look at how we arrived at this situation. We've got to learn from it and we've got to be better in future.

"We've got to do a better job so it's wrong to rule anything out. I've got to look at the best way forward for this team and how we can be better in the future."

seems this is Norberts full interview so obviously some Media outlets like to take snippets and make assumptions from them! never believe what you read in the papers nor the internet

[Gaz]

DRAMA SELLS PAPERS!

lol

i'm alot less concerened after reading the full article tho.