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[Denthúl]

Both Hamilton and Ryan were questioned by the race director and both of them would have had to answer the question. I can't believe you're choosing now to simply deny that he had any part in it. You should probably come and join the rest of us in a place I like to call reality

He did have a part in it, a big part, he could have simply said to the stewards, "Hang on, I was told to let trulli past on the radio"
He didn't, that was his mistake. So wind your neck in, I'm not in denial, nor condoning his behaviour on this thread or any other, I've been consistant throughout. But when it comes to punishments Ryan, has to take the lions share, he was Lewis's boss, he instructed Lewis to either stay quiet or deny, either way Ryan was his gaffer and has to take the fall. You implied Lewis wasn't punished, Yes he damn well has, in his loss of reputation, loss of podium and loss of championship points

I did not imply that Lewis was not punished. What I said was that Lewis was not punished by the team, whereas Dave Ryan was. I've mentioned this before, but I guess I need to mention it again just for you. Imagine the following situation:

Dave Ryan: Lewis, jump in to this fiery pit.
Lewis Hamilton: Okay! [Proceeds to jump in to the pit]

Would it play out like that? Or would it look more like:

Lewis Hamilton: You can f*** right off!

Hm? Option two, do I hear you say? That's right. Lewis is old enough to make his own choices and to know what's right and what's wrong. Trying to push everything on to Dave Ryan is simply unacceptable. Yes, he may well have been the instigator, but he was not alone in his actions.

MAD MAX:

[MAD MAX]

I did not imply that Lewis was not punished. What I said was that Lewis was not punished by the team, whereas Dave Ryan was. I've mentioned this before, but I guess I need to mention it again just for you. Imagine the following situation:

Ryan had to fall, and fall quickly by Whitmarsh b4 the whole deck of cards came tumbling down. Had Whitmarsh not taken the swift decision he did, then the FIA could have kicked McLaren out of the G.P. (and for good reason) Listen to Max and Bernie who have both stated that as far as Lewis is concerned, it's the end of punishment.

[Denthúl]

I did not imply that Lewis was not punished. What I said was that Lewis was not punished by the team, whereas Dave Ryan was. I've mentioned this before, but I guess I need to mention it again just for you. Imagine the following situation:

Ryan had to fall, and fall quickly by Whitmarsh b4 the whole deck of cards came tumbling down. Had Whitmarsh not taken the swift decision he did, then the FIA could have kicked McLaren out of the G.P. (and for good reason) Listen to Max and Bernie who have both stated that as far as Lewis is concerned, it's the end of punishment.

Once again, you're completely missing (or simply avoiding) my point. There have been no sanctions from the team. I am not talking about the FIA. Will you please realise this?

[McLaren Fan]

Ryan had to fall, and fall quickly by Whitmarsh b4 the whole deck of cards came tumbling down. Had Whitmarsh not taken the swift decision he did, then the FIA could have kicked McLaren out of the G.P. (and for good reason) Listen to Max and Bernie who have both stated that as far as Lewis is concerned, it's the end of punishment.

The only reason I can think of for McLaren suspending Ryan is precisely because they feared more punishment from the FIA. The right thing to do? Well, I'd hate to see McLaren suffer, but I'm genuinely gutted for Ryan. Over forty years involvement in motorsport and thirty-five years at McLaren with not one black mark against him makes him a part of McLaren. Unless he decided to take the blame on his shoulders to help protect the team as a whole, I find this situation very distasteful.

[MAD MAX]

Once again, you're completely missing (or simply avoiding) my point. There have been no sanctions from the team. I am not talking about the FIA. Will you please realise this?

If felipe had done sommat similarly wrong would Ferrari had given him double punishment after a kicking by the FIA?, no of course not, neither would any other team management for their drivers. He's been punished severly by the FIA, his reputation is now seriously damaged, he lost podium and 6 valuable championship points. Just what additional punishment did you have in mind for Lewis. They did away with capital punishment in the late 60's, but if you want your pound of flesh, post away, it won't make any difference to the outcome

[Denthúl]

Once again, you're completely missing (or simply avoiding) my point. There have been no sanctions from the team. I am not talking about the FIA. Will you please realise this?

If felipe had done sommat similarly wrong would Ferrari had given him double punishment after a kicking by the FIA?, no of course not, neither would any other team management for their drivers. He's been punished severly by the FIA, his reputation is now seriously damaged, he lost podium and 6 valuable championship points. Just what additional punishment did you have in mind for Lewis. They did away with capital punishment in the late 60's, but if you want your pound of flesh, post away, it won't make any difference to the outcome

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.

Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged, lost the team six points and had to live with the guilt of having done so. If I was in charge of the team, I'd have threatened to give Lewis' drive to Pedro or Gary. It would have been a severe wake-up call.

As for saying that other teams would not punish a driver, you're wrong. I can think of several team principals (past and present) who would do so. Briatore, Mallya, Todt, Jordan, Tost, even Frank Williams.

[McLaren Fan]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.

Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged, lost the team six points and had to live with the guilt of having done so. If I was in charge of the team, I'd have threatened to give Lewis' drive to Pedro or Gary. It would have been a severe wake-up call.

As for saying that other teams would not punish a driver, you're wrong. I can think of several team principals (past and present) who would do so. Briatore, Mallya, Todt, Jordan, Tost, even Frank Williams.

MAD MAX isn't worth bothering with any more. Let him believe Hamilton is completely innocent if it gets him through the night.

[MAD MAX]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.
Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged,

Ryan was Lewis's manager, he made the call, he gave the instructions to Lewis, he has fallen - end of story.

[darwin dali]

Ryan had to fall, and fall quickly by Whitmarsh b4 the whole deck of cards came tumbling down. Had Whitmarsh not taken the swift decision he did, then the FIA could have kicked McLaren out of the G.P. (and for good reason) Listen to Max and Bernie who have both stated that as far as Lewis is concerned, it's the end of punishment.

The only reason I can think of for McLaren suspending Ryan is precisely because they feared more punishment from the FIA. The right thing to do? Well, I'd hate to see McLaren suffer, but I'm genuinely gutted for Ryan. Over forty years involvement in motorsport and thirty-five years at McLaren with not one black mark against him makes him a part of McLaren. Unless he decided to take the blame on his shoulders to help protect the team as a whole, I find this situation very distasteful.

Ryan's role in the 2007 spygate was a bit shady as well...

[Denthúl]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.

Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged, lost the team six points and had to live with the guilt of having done so. If I was in charge of the team, I'd have threatened to give Lewis' drive to Pedro or Gary. It would have been a severe wake-up call.

As for saying that other teams would not punish a driver, you're wrong. I can think of several team principals (past and present) who would do so. Briatore, Mallya, Todt, Jordan, Tost, even Frank Williams.

MAD MAX isn't worth bothering with any more. Let him believe Hamilton is completely innocent if it gets him through the night.

Shall I make him some Horlicks to help along?

[McLaren Fan]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.
Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged,

Ryan was Lewis's manager, he made the call, he gave the instructions to Lewis, he has fallen - end of story.

Or how about Hamilton and Ryan both were complicit in what happened, only Ryan and McLaren as a whole are taking the bullet for Hamilton.

[scotty]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.

Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged, lost the team six points and had to live with the guilt of having done so. If I was in charge of the team, I'd have threatened to give Lewis' drive to Pedro or Gary. It would have been a severe wake-up call.

As for saying that other teams would not punish a driver, you're wrong. I can think of several team principals (past and present) who would do so. Briatore, Mallya, Todt, Jordan, Tost, even Frank Williams.

MAD MAX isn't worth bothering with any more. Let him believe Hamilton is completely innocent if it gets him through the night.

It makes funny reading though.

[MAD MAX]

MAD MAX isn't worth bothering with any more. Let him believe Hamilton is completely innocent if it gets him through the night.

Oh dear, you have obviously not read my previous 4 posts above yours, or you cannot read. I have made it perfectly clear that Hamilton is far from completely innocent, I went so much further to say he is indeed guilty and has been rightly punished, so please get your facts right, b4 you post incorrect information or assertions

[darwin dali]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Yet again.

Ryan also had his reputation seriously damaged, lost the team six points and had to live with the guilt of having done so. If I was in charge of the team, I'd have threatened to give Lewis' drive to Pedro or Gary. It would have been a severe wake-up call.

As for saying that other teams would not punish a driver, you're wrong. I can think of several team principals (past and present) who would do so. Briatore, Mallya, Todt, Jordan, Tost, even Frank Williams.

MAD MAX isn't worth bothering with any more. Let him believe Hamilton is completely innocent if it gets him through the night.

It makes funny reading though.

not

[McLaren Fan]

You're still not dealing with the issue. McLaren is taking the bullet for Hamilton. Do you think this is fair?